24-09-2004 00:31									#31
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Well, despite being idiots, they are putting ordinary people behind bars if they mistreat their animals in any way. The status of animals as having the same rights as humans is almost there.

Now, if these same people would focus on the suffering of fetuses.

	24-09-2004 00:36									#32
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PATU- people for the anaesthetised treatment of the unborn?

	24-09-2004 00:38									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Also: I would prefer if you didn't tell me what to do as it makes me think you're a complete nobend. And I don't like thinking my fellow posters are nobends.

hrmm. But earlier you said:

quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Everyone: Please take your arguments and semantics up with actual members of PETA.

I assume your earlier post doesn't qualify you as a nobend in your own eyes? Perhaps you don't like that I didn't say please? Very well. I'll rephrase my post to say

"Please don't rush to the defense of PETA if you don't agree with their views."

What's more I'll add that you should feel free to simply to take it under advisement. I merely intended to explain why you found yourself in the position of being jumped on by those who have great disdain for PETA (ie: rational and sane people). You may do as you wish of course.


as to this:

quote: Originally posted by Gibsie There is a difference between rushing to someone's defense and saying someone is doing a poor job of exposing a certain group as being a bunch of loons. The opening post of Tuberski's did not provide a good enough reason to laugh at PETA (Subsequent posts did). The fact that they mentioned slaves and animals in the same thread of though does not make "Hurr hurr they think black people are animals" a logical extension of the quote he posted. I would be rolling my eyes at attempting to mock them with as pathetic a gag as "carrots have feelings too".

I think you make a valid point that it is possible to make a weak attack even on an easy target like PETA. However if you don't want your effort to refute the weak attack to appear to be an endorsement of PETA why not offer a stronger attack of your own?

Edit: removed sentence that failed to recognise Gibsie's stated recognition of PETA as worthy of contempt.

	24-09-2004 00:41									#34
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Edit: maybe I'm misinterpreting your tone. Probably. I shall accept you didn't mean to come off like a nobend, and were in fact offering genuine advice.

	24-09-2004 00:45									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Edit: maybe I'm misinterpreting your tone. Probably. I shall accept you didn't mean to come off like a nobend, and were in fact offering genuine advice.

My tone usually comes off poorly. I probably should practice strategic placment of more smilies.

	24-09-2004 01:49									#36
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mmm-- I had steak for lunch yummm

Come to think of it I had steak for lunch yesterday too-- double yumm

	24-09-2004 01:52									#37
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If animals are supposed to do what comes naturally, well pass the beef--humans naturally eat meat .. . and if we happen to be good enough at it to "hunt" well, thats just too bad.

The only animal right to me is the right to not be subject to unnecessarily cruel treatment.

	24-09-2004 03:57									#38
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PETA... I just laugh whenever I hear about them.. they're a bunch of lunatics..

	24-09-2004 04:12									#39
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Actually, there is logic in this PETA statesment.
Just that the civilisation wouldn't be possible without the use of animals, and I doubt if it is possible now.

quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo PETA... I just laugh whenever I hear about them.. they're a bunch of lunatics..

Some time ago most people would say that about ones demanding respect for homosexuality...

	24-09-2004 04:27									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Actually, there is logic in this PETA statesment. Just that the civilisation wouldn't be possible without the use of animals, and I doubt if it is possible now. Some time ago most people would say that about ones demanding respect for homosexuality...

This might not be the best comparison. Homosexuals can speak up for their rights but animals never have and even if they could we can't be certain what they would say. In particular I really question whether animals such as dairy cattle would be happier set loose on the range. I think it more likely they would be homesick there.

We can't ask animals what they really want so the best thing to do is to spare them from cruellty. Comparisons to oppressed peoples who have been perfectly capable of pleading their cases are just invalid.

	24-09-2004 04:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo This might not be the best comparison. Homosexuals can speak up for their rights but animals never have and even if they could we can't be certain what they would say.

When an animal tries to run away and squeaks or whatever when it is being killed, I find it enough meaningful.

quote: In particular I really question whether animals such as dairy cattle would be happier set loose on the range. I think it more likely they would be homesick there.

THOSE ones yes, because they were brought up on a ranch. That is a bad point. A better would be that in the wild, they would be vulnerable to a number of other predators, who wouldn't even try to kill them in a humanitar way.

quote: Comparisons to oppressed peoples who have been perfectly capable of pleading their cases are just invalid.

Of course the comparison isn't full. The only reason why I've used it is that I was pointing it to our dear Giancarlo

	24-09-2004 04:46									#42
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Penn & Teller are fun. For such an opinionated show, they're pretty rigorous and balanced, unlike some others (cough cough, Michael Moore).

But yes, PETA are complete hypocrites of the worst order. Why is it that when a PETA member gets diabetes, it's okay for the animal to help them keep fighting? But for any other random member of society, it's immoral? Why is it murder for the public health departments to euthanize animals (Strictly by neccessity, and if PETA adopted animals instead of freeing them, there'd be less of it), but okay for PETA?

	24-09-2004 17:20									#43
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Maybe they give the animals a final request or a lavish last meal before they do it?

	24-09-2004 17:32									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun Because we hunt with tools. If we'd run after a gazelle, and rip it's throat open to kill it, then rip chunks of meat from the carcas to eat it... No problem for PETA.

Oh good, I've still got something to do on weekends then.

	24-09-2004 17:46									#45
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Why doesn't PETA ever address the problem of animals eating other animals? I mean, if boy is a dog is a fish is a cat, then shouldn't we start holding all them anim people accountable for their murderous ways, too? It doesn't need to be a dog-eat-dog world, people!

I'm sure that lions would start on a vegetarian diet if PETA folks went to ask them nicely. A vegetarian diet consisting of vegetables, too, not of vegetarians.

	24-09-2004 17:50									#46
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Surely I'm a vegetarian as cows eat vegetables and when I eat a cow, I'm just eating vegetables in a different form.

Now when i go out for bear steaks or lion rib roasts then you can claim I'm not a vegetarian.

	24-09-2004 17:59									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild Surely I'm a vegetarian as cows eat vegetables and when I eat a cow, I'm just eating vegetables in a different form. Now when i go out for bear steaks or lion rib roasts then you can claim I'm not a vegetarian.

But this lion eats cows and ghazalas which eat grass and vegetables... So...

	24-09-2004 20:04									#48
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the fact remains that when I open my fence, my dog does not run out and leave me. I don't even need a fence, but I keep it for security reasons.

I take this as a sign that my dog wants to be my buddy. Anybody who trys to take my buddy is getting a faceful of lead.

	24-09-2004 20:38									#49
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He's just used to being your buddy.
He does not know how it would be like to be a wild animal

	24-09-2004 20:41									#50
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PETA are stupid. Throw spam at them.

	24-09-2004 21:08									#51
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mmmm--- I think I should have a steak for lunch today . .. I wonder can I find a PETA branch and drop by to offer them some

	24-09-2004 21:11									#52
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http://sluggy.com/index.php

	24-09-2004 21:56									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Homosexuals can speak up for their rights but animals never have and even if they could we can't be certain what they would say.

That's not correct. Animals do speak up for themselves, but only individually, and not necessarily in a way most people understand. Most frequently, they lash out at their oppressors when being tormented.

	24-09-2004 22:00									#54
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire But yes, PETA are complete hypocrites of the worst order. Why is it that when a PETA member gets diabetes, it's okay for the animal to help them keep fighting?

Because the animal testing was done 80 years ago, and no amount of protesting will change that fact. If you're going to accuse people of hypocricy, at least point out actual instances of hypocricy.

	24-09-2004 22:04									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Why doesn't PETA ever address the problem of animals eating other animals?

That's a stupid counter-argument. Humans are perfectly capable of living as herbivores, thus the killng of animals for food is not necessary for humans. Preditors are not capable of living as herbivores, and thus must eat other animals to live. Furthermore, herbivores evolved in concert with carnivores, and require their existence in order to prevent overpopulation and species die-off. Human meat eating does not play this role in nature.

	24-09-2004 22:05									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Because the animal testing was done 80 years ago, and no amount of protesting will change that fact. If you're going to accuse people of hypocricy, at least point out actual instances of hypocricy.

It is hypocrisy. They say all animal testing should stop, but thank God for animal testing in my case.

Animal testing stops, medical advancements stop, it's that simple.

ACK!

	24-09-2004 22:08									#57
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Nothing against your brother, TMM, but many people in PETA are pretty capable of wildnerness survival.

	24-09-2004 22:09									#58
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Most pharma companies would gladly stop teseting on animals in exchange for testing on PETA members. Though, it would take for ever to see genetic effects.

	24-09-2004 22:09									#59
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Humans are perfectly capable of living as herbivores, thus the killng of animals for food is not necessary for humans.

Necessary ? No. But eating animals are oh so delicious.

	24-09-2004 22:10									#60
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Was it Homer (Simpson) who said "If god doesn't want us to eat meat, than why did he make them taste so good?"