24-09-2004 23:49									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I already said we were hypocrites.......

Oh . . . well then . . . never mind, move along, nothing to see here.

	24-09-2004 23:51									#92
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Oreos and milk, Oreos and milk, Oreos and milk.

ACK!

	25-09-2004 00:00									#93
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quote: Sure they were. You're an American, so you directly benefit. It would be very difficult to be an American had those events not occured.

So, anyone who has benefit from the existance of America therefore benefitted from slavery? Interesting.

Still, I am for slavery as far as it does and has proven to improve economies and countries. However, we must sacrifice slavery due to moral codes.

That does nothing to change the fact the she is a hypocrit, nor does give any reasonable argument for why animals should have the same rights as people since I don't share the same moral standard towards animals as I do to people.

	25-09-2004 00:28									#94
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Meat is tasty.

	25-09-2004 00:29									#95
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Only when prepared properly.

	25-09-2004 00:31									#96
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good caveat...

	25-09-2004 00:49									#97
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I'll buy that for a dollar.

	25-09-2004 00:54									#98
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Only when prepared properly.

True-- medium rare to full rare for me with a nice spice rub yum



Oh and che --- Whether cattle are a "natural" rersource or not, who cares? Just save a nice sirloin, filet, striploin etc steak for me.

I am also a speciest-- Humanity first . . .. but I also agree that we try to sustain the resources-- so am opposed to overfishing, most clearcut logging etc-- We need to use our resources more wisely its true but I have no qualms about the fact that we use those resources.

To the PETA crowd-- what do you eat if you also figure out that the tomatoe and green bean has feelings?

	25-09-2004 01:42									#99
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quote: To the PETA crowd-- what do you eat if you also figure out that the tomatoe and green bean has feelings?

Communists?

	25-09-2004 01:46									#100
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Nah, we're RED meat.

	25-09-2004 01:52									#101
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that was a bad pun

	25-09-2004 02:21									#103
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I don't mind PETA. They don't bother me. They are entitled to their opinions. I don't agree with them, and there aren't enough people that agree with them for them to be a problem.

	25-09-2004 02:22									#104
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PETA does quite a bit that is destructive. Or, at least some people do bad things, and say they did it because of PETA, or somesuch.

	25-09-2004 02:27									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Japher PETA does quite a bit that is destructive. Or, at least some people do bad things, and say they did it because of PETA, or somesuch.

Well usually PETA targets the most heinous abuses of animals... which is fine by me. I don't agree with them on much, but I can't say I cry any tears for the people they target with their vandalism or whatever else it is they do.

	25-09-2004 02:29									#106
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They blow up MEDICAL research facilities, like Chiron... Which, by the way, doesn't make cosmetics.

	25-09-2004 02:30									#107
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Are you sure that was PETA and not ALF or ELF?

	25-09-2004 02:30									#108
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did they kill anyone?

	25-09-2004 02:33									#109
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It may have been someone else, but no one puts it past PETA... No one was hurt, it was done at night.

	25-09-2004 07:17									#110
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Nothing against your brother, TMM, but many people in PETA are pretty capable of wildnerness survival.

Sure -- that's what Butch represents.

	25-09-2004 07:28									#111
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Furthermore, herbivores evolved in concert with carnivores, and require their existence in order to prevent overpopulation and species die-off. Human meat eating does not play this role in nature.

We do now.

	25-09-2004 07:37									#112
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk We do now.

No we don't. We eat very little natural meat. Where we have stepped into an ecological role as preditor, we do not consume the meat, such as in deer culls. Where we engage in large scale harvesting of natural stocks for human consumption, we over consume and destroy the stocks.

	25-09-2004 07:41									#113
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I know a lot of hunters in New Jersey who would disagree with that.

	25-09-2004 07:43									#114
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This is actually a slightly painful topic for me right now.

For the first time in over ten black powder seasons, my father has failed to bring home a single deer.

The family is in mourning.

	25-09-2004 07:44									#115
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They are full time preditors?

	25-09-2004 07:45									#116
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Some of them come damn close.

	25-09-2004 07:47									#117
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And they keep the deer population down? In the MidWest, they have to call in professionals to kill deer off by the thousands to keep them from over populating.

	25-09-2004 07:50									#118
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Let me do a little digging.

I know in New Jersey, the herds are probably 100% hunter controlled -- except where local communities forbid it due to population density or other reasons.

Mom and Dad live in the Kansas City region now, I'm not sure how it is there.

	25-09-2004 07:55									#119
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That would probably be why he didn't bring any home. If he's hunting in the MidWest, the deer there cannot be eaten, because of "mad deer" disease.

	25-09-2004 07:56									#120
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Harvest table:

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/der72-03.htm

From the program description (lots more than quoted):

quote: Controlling deer populations via the annual deer hunting seasons has been very successful throughout most of New Jersey. Managing deer numbers through annual adjustments to the deer hunting seasons is relatively easy in areas with good hunter access to the deer resource. However, factors such as development patterns, establishment of parks where hunting is prohibited, regulations that severely restrict or preclude hunting and landowner decisions not to allow hunting have resulted in population increases in some areas. The consequences of deer overabundance are well known and include excessive damage to crops, gardens and residential landscaping, and an increased incidence of deer/vehicle collisions. Excessive deer numbers can also adversely impact native vegetation and other species of wildlife. For example, forest regeneration can be inhibited or altered by excessive deer browsing and thus impact ground-nesting birds.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/deerbrf.htm