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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Saying that everything Allawi said was false is effectively calling him a liar, Ted... |
Not really. He said his perspective was too rosy. I can present an optimisitic forecast, and omit the negative side of the story, but that's still not "lying." Or maybe I just don't know any better and see a situation in a way nobody else does. (Bush does this all the time).
Secondly, there's a big difference between the impact of calling someone a "liar" and the politically correct way of saying they were saying "false statements."
Hitting it with some chick, telling her you will call the next day, and then not doing it, THAT'S LYING.
But the point remains that Ned's "calling him a Liar and Bush a Stooge," is over the top, sensationalist, taken out of context, and an exaggeration.
But that doesn't surprise me given the GOP fanboys around here who are on the "Kerry's a flipflopper but I can't prove it except for the partisan sites I put in my weblink" wagon.
Last edited by Ted Striker on 24-09-2004 at 11:39
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Drake Tungsten
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Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:22
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quote:
But the point remains that Ned's "calling him a Liar and Bush a Stooge," is over the top, sensationalist, taken out of context, and an exaggeration. |
Yeah. So what?
On-topic, Karl Rove must be creaming his jeans over this statement by Kerry. Kerry had already hurt his chances bad enough by flip-flopping on the Iraq war for the past couple years, but now he's gone and adopted the Howard Dean stance on the war just in time to destroy his support amongst centrists before the election. Rove couldn't have done any better if he was controlling Kerry's campaign himself. Unbelievable...
Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 24-09-2004 at 13:32
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
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From the NYTimes:
"But on a day when Republicans and Democrats used Dr. Allawi to reinforce starkly opposed campaign messages about Iraq, Mr. Bush and his ally presented, over all, a rosy picture of the country. In contrast, Senator John Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee, seized on the visit to paint a bleak portrait of Iraq and a Bush administration in disarray.
By the end of the day, it was clear that Dr. Allawi's visit to Washington, his first as Iraq's interim prime minister, was not simply a trip by a head of government but a politically charged moment in the presidential campaign.
"I stand here today as the prime minister of a country emerging finally from dark ages of violence, aggression, corruption and greed," Dr. Allawi told a joint meeting of Congress before his appearance at the White House, using language that echoed Mr. Bush's campaign speeches about Iraq. "Like almost every Iraqi, I have many friends who were murdered, tortured or raped by the regime of Saddam Hussein."
In the Rose Garden two hours later, Dr. Allawi and Mr. Bush continually cited progress in a nation that has been plagued by an emboldened insurgency, suicide bombings and the recent beheadings of two American hostages.
"You can understand it's tough and still be optimistic," Mr. Bush said. "You can understand how hard it is and believe we'll succeed."
Dr. Allawi, a former neurologist with close ties to the Central Intelligence Agency, was selected as interim prime minister in May by a United Nations envoy under heavy pressure from the United States. He said in the Rose Garden that he received a threat on his life every day and that in the last month he had learned of four conspiracies to kill him.
Mr. Bush, in his enthusiasm to portray what he called progress in Iraq, went so far as to say that polls there asking people whether the country was on the right track showed more positive results than similar opinion polls in the United States.
"I saw a poll that said the right track/wrong track in Iraq was better than here in America," Mr. Bush said, chuckling. "It's pretty darn strong. I mean, the people see a better future."
A Kerry campaign spokesman, Joe Lockhart, responded that Mr. Bush must be "unhinged from reality" to cite such a poll.
Mr. Kerry, at a news conference in Columbus, Ohio, said Dr. Allawi was not making sense, pointing in particular to his assertion to Congress that the terrorists in Iraq were on the defensive.
"I think the prime minister is, obviously, contradicting his own statement of a few days ago where he said the terrorists are pouring into the country," Mr. Kerry said. "The prime minister and the president are here, obviously, to put their best face on the policy. But the fact is that the C.I.A. estimates, the reporting, the ground operations and the troops all tell a different story."
Mr. Bush in turn used his 47-minute appearance with Dr. Allawi to implicitly criticize what his campaign has called Mr. Kerry's many flip-flops on Iraq, although the president did not use Mr. Kerry's name. The president said people who sent a "mixed signal" on Iraq could embolden terrorists.
"I think it's very important for the American president to mean what he says," Mr. Bush said. "That's why I understand that the enemy could misread what I say." He added: "I don't want them to be emboldened by any confusion or doubt. I don't want them to think that, well, maybe all they got to do is attack and we'll shirk our duty."
The bottom line, even the NYTimes noted the trashing of Allawi's "optimistic views" by the gloom and doom Demoncrat candiated. Allawi has become a political football, obviously siding with Bush according to Kerry is his unmerry crew.
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24-09-2004 11:15
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