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Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 10:30
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The Dems here don't understand what a serious blunder Kerry made if he did not intend to trash Allawi.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 18:52
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Chris Hitchens Speaks Out Reasonably


quote:

Flirting With Disaster
The vile spectacle of Democrats rooting for bad news in Iraq and Afghanistan.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Sept. 27, 2004, at 11:35 AM PT


There it was at the tail end of Brian Faler's "Politics" roundup column in last Saturday's Washington Post. It was headed, simply, "Quotable":

"I wouldn't be surprised if he appeared in the next month." Teresa Heinz Kerry to the Phoenix Business Journal, referring to a possible capture of Osama bin Laden before Election Day.

As well as being "quotable" (and I wish it had been more widely reported, and I hope that someone will ask the Kerry campaign or the nominee himself to disown it), this is also many other words ending in "-able." Deplorable, detestable, unforgivable. …

The plain implication is that the Bush administration is stashing Bin Laden somewhere, or somehow keeping his arrest in reserve, for an "October surprise." This innuendo would appear, on the face of it, to go a little further than "impugning the patriotism" of the president. It argues, after all, for something like collusion on his part with a man who has murdered thousands of Americans as well as hundreds of Muslim civilians in other countries.


I am not one of those who likes to tease Mrs. Kerry for her "loose cannon" style. This is only the second time I have ever mentioned her in print. But I happen to know that this is not an instance of loose lips. She has heard that very remark being made by senior Democrats, and—which is worse—she has not heard anyone in her circle respond to it by saying, "Don't be so bloody stupid." I first heard this "October surprise" theory mentioned seriously, by a prominent foreign-policy Democrat, at an open dinner table in Washington about six months ago. Since then, I've heard it said seriously or semiseriously, by responsible and liberal people who ought to know better, all over the place. It got even worse when the Democratic establishment decided on an arm's-length or closer relationship with Michael Moore and his supposedly vote-getting piece of mendacity and paranoia, Fahrenheit 9/11. (The DNC's boss, Terence McAuliffe, asked outside the Uptown cinema on Connecticut Avenue whether he honestly believed that the administration had invaded Afghanistan for the sake of an oil or perhaps gas pipeline, breezily responded, "I do now.")

What will it take to convince these people that this is not a year, or a time, to be dicking around? Americans are patrolling a front line in Afghanistan, where it would be impossible with 10 times the troop strength to protect all potential voters on Oct. 9 from Taliban/al-Qaida murder and sabotage. We are invited to believe that these hard-pressed soldiers of ours take time off to keep Osama Bin Laden in a secret cave, ready to uncork him when they get a call from Karl Rove? For shame.

Ever since The New Yorker published a near-obituary piece for the Kerry campaign, in the form of an autopsy for the Robert Shrum style, there has been a salad of articles prematurely analyzing "what went wrong." This must be nasty for Democratic activists to read, and I say "nasty" because I hear the way they respond to it. A few pin a vague hope on the so-called "debates"—which are actually joint press conferences allowing no direct exchange between the candidates—but most are much more cynical. Some really bad news from Iraq, or perhaps Afghanistan, and/or a sudden collapse or crisis in the stock market, and Kerry might yet "turn things around." You have heard it, all right, and perhaps even said it. But you may not have appreciated how depraved are its implications. If you calculate that only a disaster of some kind can save your candidate, then you are in danger of harboring a subliminal need for bad news. And it will show. What else explains the amazingly crude and philistine remarks of that campaign genius Joe Lockhart, commenting on the visit of the new Iraqi prime minister and calling him a "puppet"? Here is the only regional leader who is even trying to hold an election, and he is greeted with an ungenerous sneer.

The unfortunately necessary corollary of this—that bad news for the American cause in wartime would be good for Kerry—is that good news would be bad for him. Thus, in Mrs. Kerry's brainless and witless offhand yet pregnant remark, we hear the sick thud of the other shoe dropping. How can the Democrats possibly have gotten themselves into a position where they even suspect that a victory for the Zarqawi or Bin Laden forces would in some way be welcome to them? Or that the capture or killing of Bin Laden would not be something to celebrate with a whole heart?

I think that this detail is very important because the Kerry camp often strives to give the impression that its difference with the president is one of degree but not of kind. Of course we all welcome the end of Taliban rule and even the departure of Saddam Hussein, but we can't remain silent about the way policy has been messed up and compromised and even lied about. I know what it's like to feel that way because it is the way I actually do feel. But I also know the difference when I see it, and I have known some of the liberal world quite well and for a long time, and there are quite obviously people close to the leadership of today's Democratic Party who do not at all hope that the battle goes well in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I have written before in this space that I think Bin Laden is probably dead, and I certainly think that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a far more ruthless and dangerous jihadist, who is trying to take a much more important country into the orbit of medieval fanaticism and misery. One might argue about that: I could even maintain that it's important to oppose and defeat both gentlemen and their supporters. But unless he conclusively repudiates the obvious defeatists in his own party (and maybe even his own family), we shall be able to say that John Kerry's campaign is a distraction from the fight against al-Qaida.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 18:59
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Did you know that Ted "I saw Farenheit 9/11" Kennedy said on the Chris Matthews show that Bush deliberately let Osama bin Laden escape from Tora Bora.

Are these people totally INSANE?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:33
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quote:
What will it take to convince these people that this is not a year, or a time, to be dicking around?


Amen...

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:58 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Did you know that Ted "I saw Farenheit 9/11" Kennedy said on the Chris Matthews show that Bush deliberately let Osama bin Laden escape from Tora Bora.


Well, they did pull troops from Afganistan so they could invade Iraq. That was deliberate, and it meant we were undermanned when we went after Tora Bora. I don't think we deliberately let bin Laden go. I think it was yet another collossal ****up by a Commander-in-Chief who makes collosal ****ups on a regular basis.

President 'bin Laden who?"

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:00 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
The Dems here don't understand what a serious blunder Kerry made if he did not intend to trash Allawi.


I don't think anyone but you gives a rat's ass about Allawi.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
The Dems here don't understand what a serious blunder Kerry made if he did not intend to trash Allawi.


Yes, after all, we need Allawi. Without him, we are nothing.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:34 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Ted "I saw Farenheit 9/11" Kennedy


Is he related to Howard "George Bush is not my neighbor" Dean?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Did you know that Ted "I saw Farenheit 9/11" Kennedy said on the Chris Matthews show that Bush deliberately let Osama bin Laden escape from Tora Bora.

Are these people totally INSANE?


Capturing bin Laden would really take some of the wind out of the sails of the whole perpetual war as an excuse to remold US civil liberties and the world at large, now wouldn't it?

And I've seen emails circulating among Republicans about how there are supposed new Iraqi aircraft with all sorts of post-sanctions French and Russian avionics, as well as real WMD stockpiles which had been captured in Iraq, but classified until now so that the evil liberal media elite can't tell the real story, blah blah blah.

There's a lot of fiction on both sides of the fence, because the fiction is less alarming than the reality of spectacular incompetence by the Bushies.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln


Is he related to Howard "George Bush is not my neighbor" Dean?


No, but he may be related to George "bin Laden who?" W. Bush

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:25
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If that is Hitchens "speaking reasonably", then I don't want to see him in rant mode.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:26
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He did that in the 80's when he was boozing it up.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:29
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OHHH, so he has moved on to crack now, hasn't he?

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:30
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Why do you ask, are you afraid you've missed a paying customer?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:43
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Hey, don't get snippy, your shipment is on it's way.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 22:09
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My checks in the mail. By the by, Bubba says he needs his fix.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:40
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I don't think anyone but you gives a rat's ass about Allawi.


Why of course, Che. The best hope for democracy in Iraq and an early exist from this war is someone the Democrats (what a misnomer) have to trash, undermine and publicly humiliate for the consumption of the Arab world and to the dismay of the average Iraqi who hopes for a better future for himself and his family?

Last edited by Ned on 29-09-2004 at 02:36

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:41
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Yes, after all, we need Allawi. Without him, we are nothing.


Since when have you become a fool?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:44
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Capturing bin Laden would really take some of the wind out of the sails of the whole perpetual war as an excuse to remold US civil liberties and the world at large, now wouldn't it?

And I've seen emails circulating among Republicans about how there are supposed new Iraqi aircraft with all sorts of post-sanctions French and Russian avionics, as well as real WMD stockpiles which had been captured in Iraq, but classified until now so that the evil liberal media elite can't tell the real story, blah blah blah.

There's a lot of fiction on both sides of the fence, because the fiction is less alarming than the reality of spectacular incompetence by the Bushies.


But, it appears, that the leaders of the Democrat party are have a very hard time distinquishing between reality and fantasy. Are they all borderline schizophrenics?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:50
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We should merge this thread and the CIA rigging elections thread. It makes Kerry look even better and right on about Allawi.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned


Why of course, Che. The best hope for democracy in Iraq and an early exist from this war is someone the Democracy (what a misnomer) have to trash, undermine and publicly humiliate for the consumption of the Arab world and to the dismay of the average Iraqi who hopes for a better future for himself and his family?


How the hell is an ex-hitman for the dictator "the best hope for democracy"? If that is true Iraq has serious problems. Allawi has the job for a variety of reasons- a stellar democartic past or strong democratic leanings are not two of those reasons.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:38
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GePap, Kerry and his campaign have been hammering Allawi publicly big time, while privately sending a Senator to reasure him. Now, why would they do this? Politics?

But the problem is that attacking Allawi undermines our effort in Iraq big time where it counts, in Iraq.

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
But the problem is that attacking Allawi undermines our effort in Iraq big time where it counts, in Iraq.
How, exactly?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
GePap, Kerry and his campaign have been hammering Allawi publicly big time, while privately sending a Senator to reasure him. Now, why would they do this? Politics?


DUH

You win a cookie!

quote:

But the problem is that attacking Allawi undermines our effort in Iraq big time where it counts, in Iraq.


So you prefer the Iraqi PM campain for Bush while trumping Bushs insane view of Iraq as being good for the Iraqis? Maybe this idea has never gotten to you, but supporting a bad policy is wrong- "staying the course" is fine, unless its heading right for a black hole-and then you would be an utter idiot to "stay the course". Bush opf course would rather get sucked into nothingness than admit he was utterly wrong. Personally I doubt Iraqis want that fate.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:58
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Kerry allegedly supports democracy in Iraq even while he attacks it. Please explain if you can.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 03:04 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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A former Mukhabarat hitman that was appointed as PM isn't the same thing as "democracy in Iraq."

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 03:07
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Ah, so, an anti-Saddam Iraqi patriot is not your cup of tea. Who do you, or for that matter, Kerry propose as an alternative?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 03:16 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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I propose democracy; it isn't my choice, it's theirs.

BTW, I didn't realize that you were a fan of Moqtada al-Sadr (as much of an "anti-Saddam Iraqi patriot" as the Mukhabarat hitman that you're spooging over), Ned.

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 03:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Kerry allegedly supports democracy in Iraq even while he attacks it. Please explain if you can.


There have been no elections in Iraq yet- there is no democracy in Iraq yet-this is a temporary transitional government appointed by commission getting the country ready for elections to come whichy will chose the first democratic government.

At least get your facts straight.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 03:26 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Actually, there have been municipal elections in a few cities very early on in the occupation. Then Bremer shut them down because he was afraid of the results.

 
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