20-10-2004 19:43									#61
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so saturday rather than friday?

	20-10-2004 19:51									#62
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Barley said further up he can't this Friday.

	20-10-2004 20:42									#63
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Ok so game on Saturday. 4pm gmt sounds just fine. I think that's 8am pacific for us Epw

Oh something else I formatted my pc, but now when I try to install the official patch I get the message that the game couldn't be found or something, so having problems installing it any subjections there guys.


I will see you all on Sat 4pm gmt

	21-10-2004 11:07									#64
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Um, theirs no way I'm getting up at 8am to play..sorry.

Actually I am getting up at 8am but for good reason, and I won't beable to play until 12pm(8pm gmt) at the earliest. Well maybe 7pm gmt, but 8 seems more likely

	21-10-2004 20:33									#65
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No problem Epw, so what time then 8gmt? So the other guys.

	22-10-2004 01:29									#66
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I thought 4pm may have been a bit early lol. Ill be on ICQ from 7pm but wont expect EPW till 8pm. That should give us a good 4-6 hours hopefully (maybe longer?)

Sorry cant play Friday im going out, see you on Saturday.

	22-10-2004 22:01									#67
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Ok i will be here at 8gmt, see you all then

	22-10-2004 22:02									#68
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oh and about game time i got plenty tomorrow, so no worries

	24-10-2004 01:36									#69
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Maq and I waited till about 9.30 (current UK time). Guess something came up with you guys so not to worry. Maq is starting a game with a new player to give him some experience.

We both still want to continue this game so will be available next Friday, as usual can you post to confirm you will be available, times etc.

	24-10-2004 01:41									#70
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Just to confirm I can play next weekend, let us know if you can.

	24-10-2004 01:49									#71
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sorry I didnt show up...

I thought I would get home alot sooner.

	24-10-2004 02:27									#72
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sorry for being late but i'm here now. So we just need you maq to come to the icq

	24-10-2004 02:29									#73
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Maq, as you can see the other two have just arrived so if you still have time for the game we will be waiting on ICQ for a few hours.

EPW & Toni have lots of time, I guess I can hang around as long as I can stay awake so providing you see this message and still have time we can get going.

	24-10-2004 19:31									#74
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just to double check we were continuing today Sun at 8:30gmt? If so, great i will see you all on the icq then

	24-10-2004 19:39									#75
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Yeah I'm ready to continue tonight.

By the way I thought it was 8:30pm UK time which is 7:30pm GMT?

	24-10-2004 19:59									#76
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hmmm not sure, though it was 8:30gmt lol ok i will be on the look out from 7:30gmt. Even better if we can start 7:30gmt more game time. i will be online from 7:30gmt.

	24-10-2004 21:25									#77
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I dunno Barley said 8:30pm UK time in the chat, although we don't know yet whether he meant UK time as in his house which is always GMT or real UK time which is GMT+1 at the moment.

Ill be there for 7:30pm GMT anyway just in case.

	24-10-2004 23:10									#78
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Epw is online but away, so i left him a message if he can be around 8gmt online. Ok i will be here from 7:45gmt just need to get some lunch brb

	25-10-2004 20:22									#79
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Sorry that i had to leave so fast yesterday guys. Ok so you know i can play this coming Friday, Sat and Sun. Any time will be good for me.

By the way great game there guys. Maq, Barley you are doing great, i like your strategy. Please don't kill Epw

See you guys

	26-10-2004 01:34									#80
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I can play this fri/sat/sun anytime, just let us know what time ASAP.

Yeah the game looks good so far.

Since it looks like we might finish the game (in one way or another) in the next 3 or 4hr session, maybe we should think about making some other changes before the next game?

Only like make Machine Gunner stronger or Tanks weaker or more expensive. What do you all think?

	26-10-2004 03:51									#81
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jungles/forest needs to be changed, maybe increase value of commernce tile improvements since barley cant use scientists.

Possiblly make all flankers more expensive, either to build or support, or just make them weaker.

Friday at 11:30 gmt is the earliest I can play.

	26-10-2004 05:26									#82
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Ok i'm good for Friday 11:30 gmt, hope you British folks can stay till late Can we try gettting a game as well on Sat and Sun, so we have more time to kick eachother buts. Hope Epw you can start earlier then.

Yea Maq you are right, we should adjust somethings, make game more balanced, as Epw said maybe add more commerce to jungle desert and forest, make them deserable. Also maybe add more defence to forts, weaker units, hmmm things like that.

I say lets try organizing a wish list maybe, with things to change, so maybe we can start the 3rd game with them.

I think the 2nd game will be decided on Friday, and we can get the 3rd rolling with the new staff.

Let me see what you guys think about it, everyone try sharing what he wants, so we can finalize it maybe say Thursday so Maq can do the mod.

	26-10-2004 21:45									#83
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Here’s a post I made in the source code forum.

quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora But for now we can say these would be good changes to terrain.txt, adding in all changes from SAP2 apart from base beaches and shallow/deep water tiles have at least 5 production instead: Food/Production/Commerce Was > Is now Add time/cost/advance = turns/pw cost/advance required to add this terrain Remove time/cost/advance = turns/pw cost/advance required to remove this terrain River +5/+5/+5 > +5/+0/+5 Forest Add advance agri. rev. > toolmaking Add cost 800 > 200 Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking Remove time 1 > 3 10/5/10 > 5/15/5 Plains Add time 1 > 5 Tundra Remove time 2 > 5 0/5/0 > 5/5/0 Glacier Add advance adv. composites > gaia theory Remove advance adv. composites > gaia theory Remove time 5 > 10 Grassland Add advance toolmaking > agriculture Add time 1 > 5 Remove advance toolmaking > agriculture Desert Add advance agri. rev > conservation Remove advance agri. rev > conservation Remove time 1 > 7 Remove cost 400 > 800 0/0/5 > 0/10/5 Swamp Remove time 1 > 5 Remove cost 400 > 800 Jungle Add advance agri. rev. > indus. rev Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking Remove time 1 > 3 Remove cost 200 > 400 5/10/5 > 10/10/5 Mountain Add time 5 > 10 Remove time 5 > 10 0/15/10 > 0/15/5 Hill Add time 2 > 10 Remove time 3 > 10 Remove cost 600 > 1000 5/10/10 > 5/10/5 Shallow Water 10/10/5 > 10/5/10 Deep Water 10/10/5 > 10/5/10 Submarine Volcano 0/25/15 > 10/20/10 Beach 10/10/10 > 10/5/10 Continental Shelf 5/10/5 > 10/5/10 Sand Dunes Add time 2 > 10 Remove time 3 > 10 Remove cost 600 > 1000 Movement 2 > 3 Desert Mountain Add time 5 > 10 Remove time 5 > 10 0/10/10 > 0/15/5 Polar Hill Add time 2 > 10 Remove time 3 > 10 Remove cost 600 > 1000 0/5/5 > 0/10/5 Movement 2 > 3 Polar Mountain Add time 5 > 10 Remove time 5 > 10 0/10/5 > 0/15/5 Kelp Bed 15/10/5 > 15/5/10 Coral Reef 10/15/5 > 10/10/10 To add another point into the discussion, what about defence values? I have always thought they are too low and only have any significant effect on mountains +100% defence. I suggested doubling them all because combat uses attack and defence for both the attacker and the defending unit each round for units on the front line, so defence is only half of the important stats, whereas in civ2 a defending unit only uses its defence stat in a battle, and yet most of civ2 terrain defence modifiers are the same and sometimes even higher then CtP2 values. I would also make fortifying a unit +100% defence not 50…

That includes double defence bonus for forts to 100% too but I would still make them even higher as Toni said to +200% defence.

For units, I suggest we only change the units we don’t use at all or not very often, like Machine Gunner, Battleship, Destroyer, Cargo Helicopter (change it to Transport Plane), Hover Infantry, Interceptor, Leviathan, Marine, Paratrooper, Mobile SAM, etc. All the other units that currently have some use should be left as they are IMO, until we fix these useless ones.

	27-10-2004 04:14									#84
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From the read above we continue at 11:30gmt on Friday.

Barley you ok with that time?

	28-10-2004 01:41									#85
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Fine for 11.30. A bit late but ill work around it. May have an nap early evening so im no so tired. I hope to be able to play until 5-6am so that should give us nearly 6 hours.

Cannot play Saturday (err well I can until 6pm GMT but since that’s very early morning for you guys I guess that’s a no go. Can continue on Sunday any time after 5pm GMT until around 2am.

Re the changes, sounds like a good idea, can you explain what you mean i.e.

Forest
Add advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Add cost 800 > 200
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
10/5/10 > 5/15/5


Im not clear on the referenced to advances, add cost, or remove time.

	28-10-2004 02:05									#86
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Nice to here from you Barley

For each terraforming act (removing and adding) you need to have discovered a certain advance, as you know. Well the change with the > means it used to require agricultural revolution but is now > toolmaking.

For the cost there is a remove and add cost.

In the default game it costs 220pw to terraform grassland to plains, so thats,

Grassland
remove cost 20

and

Plains
add cost 200

Remove time is how many turns the terraforming act takes to complete to get rid of the specified terrain.

	28-10-2004 07:57									#87
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Ok so we are all good to go for Friday 11:30gmt, see you all on the icq.

	28-10-2004 23:58									#88
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Good.

So what about these changes to terrain for the next match? I want to know before we start the next game.

I won't change anything anyones unhappy with, although I must say these are more fair than the original terrain Maybe we need more time deciding which units to change before the next game, so maybe can leave those out at least for one game.

	29-10-2004 02:45									#89
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Maybe the best time for us to decide this issue with changing sets will be tomorrow while we are playing.

See you guys tomorrow

	29-10-2004 10:27									#90
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Ugh sorry I can't make it tommorow until 1:30 GMT. Maybe earlier but not sure Hope you guys can make it at that time...