15-10-2004 21:13									#31
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@vodkakov: The ship does look great; I think it could be tweaked into an Iroquois. Thanks a lot! Think you could design a vision of near future Californian rebel militiamen? Just use what knowledge you have of modern California and your imagination (though give them M16 or M19's; I doubt even rebel Americans would touch an AK-47).

@Sarsstock: I agree that vodkakov's sub and cruiser (the latter properly tweaked) could be used. Do you have a Canadian Navy shield we could overlay over his British Navy one?

	16-10-2004 21:41									#32
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I will take a shot at the California militiaman unit. Also, I will try to make up a Canadian naval unit shield. Anywayas, here is a newstory on how drought is already affecting America today. Who know's how bad it will become in another decade.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...historicdrought

	16-10-2004 23:34									#33
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That's a very neat - yet disturbing - newstory. Well, I look forward to seeing the California militiaman and Canadian Naval shield!

	17-10-2004 01:23									#34
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Question, should the California militiaman uniform be that of the California National Guard or a completely new design? I'll try it both ways and you can tell me what you think of the result.

	17-10-2004 02:38									#35
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I'll wait and see them to judge for sure, but sight-unseen I'm favoring a new uniform. Also, could you try your hand at the First Nations militiaman (I gave some advice on their appearance in the other thread)?

	17-10-2004 02:53									#36
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quote: As for an Aboriginal infantry, I'd say, from visuals of the Lubicon Lake and Oka crises, as well as their hunting attire and Aboriginal Canadian chic in general, an infantryman with a red flanel lumberjack coat, camauflage fatigue pants, a red headband, and holding an AK-47.

Here's the text from the other thread I offered as advice on First Nations militia, so you don't have to go digging through that thread.

	17-10-2004 06:21									#37
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Okay, how's this for starters? I think this could represent their "militia" units, the volunteer regiments. Nunavut should have their own profesional infantry unit in addition to this I think, a unit that reflects natives who have served in the armed forces and have profesional training.

Attachment: nunavut militia.gif
This has been downloaded 59 time(s).

	17-10-2004 07:09									#38
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Looks good so far! Is that shield the Nunavut flag, a real First Nations flag, or a custom one? And, whichever way, could you please post it as a standard city flag? Good one!

	17-10-2004 20:26									#39
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Maybe I'll add some white trim and some orange patches. In any case, the Nunavut flag is authentic accept for one aspect, the real nunavut flag is yellow and white with the totem pole inbetween, where as the one i created is yellow and black.

	17-10-2004 23:05									#40
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Here is the improved Nunavut Militia unit. I added some white fur trim to the jacket to best resemble the kind of jacket you'd need fighting in the Canadian Northwest. Now the California Militia has a brown army jacket, a red vest, camoflauge pants and a brown police hat of sorts.

Both are armed with the worlds #1 assult rifle, the AK-47. Now, do you have any idea what a possible Canaidan Militia/Vollunteer or Albertan Militia/Vollunteer unit should look like?

Attachment: california nunavut militia.gif
This has been downloaded 51 time(s).

	18-10-2004 08:22									#41
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I'm thinking Canadian Militia/Volunteer should possibly be dressed in typical Canadian outdoorsman/hunter attire, perhaps being issued C-6's by the Federal gov't. The Albertan/Western Militia/Volunteers should actually look similar, but in different colors (perhaps the flanel jackets so beloved by Canadian hunters could be red for the Canadians and blue for the Albertan/Westerners, if only a play on Liberal and Conservative party colors), and the Western militia should have an AK-47, not a C-6. Two untouched topics: Quebecois militia should kind of resemble almost a SWAT officer, but with a more greenish color, and an AK-47; and militias springing up in the Southern and Southwestern US could wear, if not full cowboy attire, perhaps a kind of 'get-off-my-land' sort of rancher, heavily armed. Those are just some ideas.

	18-10-2004 19:53									#42
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I'm not sure Red for the Canadian Militia is a good idea as its already the colour for the Nunavut Militia. Though I suppose in real life many nations use similar enough uniforms as it is.

Now about Quebec, I was thinking about this the other day and I realized there simply won't be enough units in the units.gif if we include so many breakaway nations in North America. Maybe to keep things less complicated we could axe Quebec as a playable civ and simply make it part of Canada. The idea for this scenario was the western seperation anyways.

Any thoughts?

	18-10-2004 20:40									#43
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In any case, here are a couple of those "get off o my land" units you described.

Attachment: rancher units.gif
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	18-10-2004 21:13									#44
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The units look great! As for Quebec, I'm a bit trepiditious about axeing them, as in yesterday's paper they were saying the PQ already bringing up sovereignty again. Maybe just give them a unique infantry and riverboat and have them share a few rigged vehicles with the Western Separatists (I think that should fit, assuming we're not seriously having a bikini-clad rollersquad and such). Another alternative is that we could do this whole thing by ToT (I know you work on that game with curtsibling from another thread) and thus we get more unit slots and events space but will likely have to sharpen many (if not all) of these units. Tell me what you think.

	18-10-2004 21:45									#45
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The units are directly transferrable to ToT. If you want, you can subsequently increase unit height and colour depth (15/16-bit as opposed to 256-colours). If you want to be really fancy-pants you can make 8-direction or even fully-animated sprites.

	18-10-2004 22:21									#46
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Well ToT is a good idea, but are maps directly tranferable as well? If not, then we'd have to either re-do the map ourselves, find an appropriate map or enlist somebody to make a new one.

However, it is much easier to recolour and manipulate units and icons with the 256 bit colour scheme.

	18-10-2004 22:58									#47
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Do you have PSP Sarsstock? If so there is a retouch tool (a hand icon in PSP7) on the left menu bar wich allows you to recolour easily. This can only be used on 24-bit (or is it 15-bit?) per pixel images and therefore can't be used with MGE images but can with ToT gfx. You can increase colour depth to 24-bit by selecting 'colous---increase colour depth' on the PSP7 menu.

There is a dos-based converter by Angelo Scotto which turns MGE scenarios into ToT-compatible ones BTW

	18-10-2004 23:21									#48
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Well, to answer your question no, sadly I don't have PSP, as good as Photoshop is I do realize PSP would come in handy for jobs such as this. In any case, I'm glad you've taken an interest in this thread my friend, as you are no doubt the king of units.

Here are afew I've cooked up using the ToT pallet, so they probally won't work if you tried to use them in an MGE scenario, not without the colours being compressed down to 8 bit. We have 2 SWAT units, the SWAT style Quebecois Militia, and two humvee's from the Orange Country Rangers.

I've composed a little story behind those humvee's. When California declares independance, a 22 year old young woman from a wealthy family decides to enlist in the new California Armed Forces. Due to clerical and beurocratic bungling, she and many of her friends are rejected. She then uses her personal fortune to purchase a small fleet of H2's, has them outfiteed with gun turrets and bulletproof armor, then after enlisting crews for the H2's she launches a series of attacks that brings several towns in Southern California still loyal to Washington under Californian controll.

Think of it as a combination of Joan of Arc and Roosevelts Rough Rider's in the 21st Century.

Attachment: swat unitset #1.bmp
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

	19-10-2004 08:15									#49
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I think I'll start devoting more time to this scenario, as every other game I had in development has since fallen apart. I think we should try to come up with some other idea's for wonders and improvments in general.

Maybe Canada can have a "Medicare" wonder that brings happiness to one extra citizen. California of course can have "The Govenator", which makes 3 extra citizens happy to reflect Arnold's popularity.

	19-10-2004 08:33									#50
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Here's a possibility for a police station icon, or possibly a SWAT Station.

Attachment: police station.gif
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	19-10-2004 08:52									#51
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I just realized, if we include all the civ's we want which are:

1) Canada
2) Quebec
3) Grand Alberta
4) Nunavut
5) California
6) USA
7) Florida

We're still going to have a crowded game map. Even in ToT, maybe we could make the game a tad less complicated for us to write if we drop one of two of the above mentioned civ's.

	19-10-2004 09:48									#52
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I didn't realize there was so many utilities needed to convert stuff to ToT (but I have seen them all here and there). I do like your 'Joan of Arc' style idea for the H2's, actually, Sarsstock. I think if anyone's dropped, maybe Florida, as they'd likely be an annoyance to the US at best (though I would like to wrangle all seven if possible). And thanks Fairline for you're contributions.

	19-10-2004 21:49									#53
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Do you have any other ground unit suggestions wish descriptions of what they might look like?

	19-10-2004 22:19									#54
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Well, my cousin, who's actually in the forces, says Canada makes extensive use of Leopard tanks, which I believe are German made, as the mainstay offensive armor, whereas the US, of course has the M1A1 Abrams, both of which may still be in service in 10 years (hell, Israel still uses M48's, and they were introduced in the Korean War, for instance). I think maybe a Jeep with a gun turret rig should suffice for Western and Quebecois makeshift attack ground vehicles, though possibly also a armored car (the kind banks use) with a top-mounted gauss gun for motorised infantry, though the Jeep would be alpine, whereas the armored car should stick to the roads. I'm not fully familiar with APC models used by the US and Canada today, I'm afraid. US Marines, however, would be quite significant, as would their GI's. US Army Rangers could have both alpine and paradrop, and Canada's JTK could also be represented. I think Mexican Infantry should also be there, though would be barbarian-only units defending (not moving or attacking from) Mexican cities in the Southwest of the map (in fact, the barbarian flag would be the Mexican flag as I see it). Thus, Mexico would be neutral, but put up a defensive fight if attacked (I don't really know what Mexican army troops look like, however). Floridan/Cuban militia, I imagine, would look kind of like Marlon Brando in some parts of 'Apocalypse Now' with a Cuban flag shield. Most of the above should be easy to find images for, I think. A final note, though, perhaps, given gang participation in events in Haiti recently, 'gang units' would spring up if Los Angeles were taken (kind of like partisans, though specifically triggered with the events text), which would have dark skin, gang-style hip-hop clothes, and an AK-47. Just some ideas.

	19-10-2004 22:45									#55
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Well, at least I'm sure we can find some good Leopard's and Abrams battle tanks. I know for a fact that the Americans will still be relying on the Apache Attack Hellicopter, on a count its replacement the Commanche has been scrapped.

I like your idea for Los Angelas gangs. I'll also try to whip something up for that bank armored car unit, though I'm not sure where I'd be able to find one. I suppose I can modify one of Curt's WW1 armored cars, as the Germans model does resemble a modern day bank armored car. Also, do you know where I could find a modern looking jeep? Though I suppose there isn't that much of a difference between a modern jeep and the kind that saw service half a century ago.

	19-10-2004 22:54									#56
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Here's a thought.... a Boeing 747 air transport. Do you think we have the skill to make one of perhaps we could find somebody to make one for us?

	19-10-2004 23:17									#57
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Before I forget, here are those Canadian Naval units complete with the shield of our grand navy.

Attachment: canadian naval units.gif
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	19-10-2004 23:31									#58
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I think both the Jeep and armored car could easily be adapted from World War era vehicles, like you said. I myself can do no more than minor touchups reliably with the bitmap editor, so whether 'we' can design a Boeing 747 is entirely your call. A Quebecois river gunboat should resemble one used in many Third World Countries and should be able to be found (I recall a scen about the modern Congo having a good one). I would not use B-2's or B-52's for the US, even though they'd exist, for the same reason I wouldn't use nukes; frankly, the Pentagon wouldn't conscien carpet bombing its own territory; A-10's and F-117A's, however, are within reason. We could also say that Cuba has supplied the Floridan rebels with a precious few MiG-21's, mostly for air defence interception. I think the US Navy should effectively be reduced to FFG's, DD's and SSBN's; larger ships are out of the scale of a mostly land-based homeland revolt.

	20-10-2004 00:01									#59
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Here are some possibilities for the official infantry of Canada and Grand Alberta. Both are originally Typhoon's creation, with the Grand Albertan uniform made to resemble a more 1980's Canadian armed forces style.

I also included the shield of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Attachment: candian-albertan infantry.gif
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	20-10-2004 00:08									#60
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They both look good! What are your opinions on my several unit suggestions above?