20-10-2004 00:17									#61
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Well, of course I agree that Washington ordering the Carpet Bombing of Miami wouldn't help the situation, nor would Sacramento ordering the carpet bombing of Pro-American cities in California.

All and all I think your suggestions are pretty good. Do you have any experience in ToT scenario making though? I have apsolutley none.

	20-10-2004 00:31									#62
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I once began work on a near future global scen with Earth, Mars and AC as available worlds, and I got a basic knack for it, save multi-mapping. Given this is a one-map scen with no animation, I should have little trouble. I'll miss the FW editors, but they're largely a luxury for a veteran. I think if you manage the graphics and a decent share of the ideas, and someone gets the map done, I can do the text files and cutting and pasting the bitmaps. How does that division of labor sound?

	20-10-2004 00:40									#63
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Sounds good to me. You wouldn't happen to remember where this Congo scenario can be found or who produced it do you? If you can that would really help us along.

	20-10-2004 00:52									#64
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Actually, I have it in my 'Net Stuff' folder in Civ2. Here's the .zip file I extracted it from. I also think there's a unit in there that, with brighter and more varied colored clothes, could be made into the gang unit.

Attachment: congo.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	20-10-2004 01:18									#65
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Another thing to consider is terrain resources. Oases and pheasants aren't appropriate to North America, farmers decide where wheat, wine, and fruit grow, buffalo and whales are too scarce to be reliable resources (and strict laws even the seccessionists would support protect them), etc. I think, as per a theme of this scen, abundant water should be a resource. Any other suggestions?

	20-10-2004 01:23									#66
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Fishing stocks should be hard to find in general, to reflect the effects of over fishing. Maybe we can contact Curt and ask his opinion on terrain and more importantly commodities. As far as I'm concerned, Curt comes up with the best commodities.

In any case, here's a Cuban Mig-21 on lease to Florida, note it still features the Air Force seal of Cuba. I also gave it some camoflauge, as I'm sure it would come in handy flying over low lying swamp areas.

Attachment: mig-21.gif
This has been downloaded 77 time(s).

	20-10-2004 01:41									#67
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That MiG looks great, and I agree with fishing stocks as a resource. Why don't you PM Curt and ask his opinion on the issue and please post back. Unless, of course, you're following this thread, Curt, in which case please drop a post. Either way, Curt's opinion should be solicited, I agree. Anyone else with ideas, also feel free to contribute. I thought just now maybe prime timber (in forest terrain) and uranium (in mountain terrain) as other resources.

	20-10-2004 01:42									#68
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And here is an American A10 Warthog and an Apache attack hellicopter. Now I imagine some of these might fall into Californian hands so I might have to come up a Californian Air Force seal. I'm thinking a red circle around a white circle with a California Grizzly Bear in the middle.

Sadly, the California Grizzly Bear is extinct. Just thought I'd inform you all of that.

Attachment: warthog-apache.gif
This has been downloaded 77 time(s).

	20-10-2004 11:57									#69
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They look great! And I agree with the California Air Force seal design. What do you think of the gunboat in that Congo scen?

	20-10-2004 20:31									#70
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Well I had a look at it, I think it needs some modifying as right now it doesn't quite fit with the Fairline total isometric style.

Anyways, here are standard humvee's in the service of both the US Army and the California Army.

Attachment: us-californian humvee's.bmp
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	20-10-2004 21:39									#71
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In any event, here is a piece of the units.gif as it stands now. I just tested it out in ToT and the graphics work perfectly.

Even if I were to create a unit for each one you described, we will still have plenty of room left over. Though I suppose thats a problem thats good to have. So lets have some other idea's for units and such.

Attachment: units.bmp
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

	20-10-2004 22:37									#72
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It looks good so far! As a recount, here's the units You or I've suggested that have yet to get graphics:

Western Attack Jeep
Western Motorized Infantry (armored car)
Western Attack-Rigged Corporate Jet
Quebec version of each of the above three Western units
Quebec Gunboat
US FFG (frigate)
US DD (destroyer)
US SSBN (conventional submarine)
US Army Rangers
US General Infantry
US M2A1 Bradly (APC)
US F-117A
US F-15 Eagle
Canadian Leopard
Canadian APC (uncertain on model name)
Canadian Sea King
Californian Coast Guard PT Boat
Californian LA Gang Unit
Floridan Militia
Cuban Supply Transport
Cuban Air Defense
Cuban Home Infantry
Boeing 747 Air Transport (Western, Quebec and Californian)
C-130 Hercules (US and Canadian)
Mexican Infantry (barbarian defense only)

I think that about covers it. There should also be an engineer unit, mostly to repair pillaging (maxing out cities or adjusting fertility with a hex editor may prevent city building). Anything else you can think of?

Last edited by Patine on 20-10-2004 at 23:05

	20-10-2004 23:04									#73
	Remove this text

Oh, and I forgot, the US Marine and Californian F-15. All of that should still fit into a ToT units.bmp (an MGE one would be very unlikely, though). I think we should find most of them already made, or only needing touch-ups, and thus a shield need only be assigned. Let me know if I've missed anything.

	20-10-2004 23:31									#74
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No I think you got them all. I'm going to use this moment to send out an official Fairline request. Fairline, I was wondering if you could maybe provide us with some models for bare chested warriors to represent Florida Militia (The Brando type) and Los Angelas gang units.

I think I can hold my own when it comes to recolouring uniforms, but skin tones are just too foreign for me. We'd appreciate any help you can offer man!!

	20-10-2004 23:32									#75
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Oh, and I think we should exclude the Sea King, though this may be wishfull thinking, I hope to high heaven they're still not in service in another decade, considering they belonged in a museam 15 years ago.

Also, I'm not aware of any Fairline style F-117 fighters. There might be one or two that I'm just not aware of however.

	21-10-2004 03:22									#76
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I suppose we could drop the Sea King (actually, my constuency's MP, Peter Goldring, is launching a personal crusade to get them replaced. This, and his other such crusade to get Britain to cede the Turks and Caicos Islands to Canada, might have led me to vote for him if he didn't bear the Conservative Party banner). I too can't think of any other units that are needed. Have you talked to Curt about resources and commodities yet, BTW?

	21-10-2004 10:38									#77
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No I haven't talked to Curt, so I will take this opportunity to ask:

Curt, if possible could you help the two of us out with commodities and resources in this scenario? If Curt doesn't get this then I shall send a PM to him ASAP.

Hmmm... maybe Canada could have controll of Turks and Caicos in this scenario. I personally think Canada should offer entry into confederation to the islands.

	21-10-2004 19:38									#78
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I do agree with the Turks and Caicos beginning under Canadian control, actually. And I hope Curt and Fairline can help us above. How are you doing on that First Nations city, BTW?

	21-10-2004 20:30									#79
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In all honesty, since I've been on this unit blitz I haven't gone near the cities.gif. I want to make some more units first before shifting focus one more time back to the cities.

	21-10-2004 22:07									#80
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Fair enough. Just post what graphics you come up with as you finish them. I'll take a look at initial editing of the rules.txt (essentially, a rough draft), focusing initially on advances and units. I'll show you what I've got when I've got something.

	22-10-2004 20:27									#81
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I just had a thought, should all American land units have the same camoflauge scheeme? In this sense it would be to give the units a sense of uniformity. If so then I'll wait until I have all the units complied in the end to dive them the colouring job.

	22-10-2004 20:49									#82
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Okay, the unit.gif is comming along pretty good, but would you know where I can find an American M1 Abrams WITHOUT camoflauge? I need it so that I can recolour it properly with the American colour scheme at for the final units.gif.

	22-10-2004 22:29									#83
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I think this is an M1A1 Abrams. It's kind of orangish-beige.

Attachment: m1a1.bmp
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	23-10-2004 20:48									#84
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Say, while I tinker with the units and come up with idea's for the cities, why don't you try to come up with some names for our nations. I think we agree that "The Govenator" should be at the helm for California, but who should be in the White House? Will Castro be in power still in another ten years? Will a Liberal or a Tory hold the Prime Minister's office? And who shall be leading the Albertan's?

	23-10-2004 22:54									#85
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Also, how do you feel about adding vehicles like the AAVP7 (Amphibious Assult Vehicle) and the M6 Linebacker? Also I think there should be a generic heavy artillery unit, like Curt had in Vendetta.

	24-10-2004 06:11									#86
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About your first post, I agree with Scharzenegger as the Californian leader, certainly. As for the Western Separatists, I imagine Stephen Harper will grow disillusioned with politics in Ottawa (as he's known to do, according to his biography on the CBC) and lead the separatist movement from Calgary (where his current seat is from and his residence is, and which would be the West's capital, so that none of the four Western Provinces' capitals was chosen, thus avoiding overly favoring that province, but still leaning toward Alberta). I do envision, though, a Liberal Canadian PM (if only to contrast Harper being a Conservative), but as to whom, I'm thinking a younger but important member of the Cabinet from Ontairio or the Maritimes (perhaps you have a suggestion). Quebec would be lead by either PQ leader Bernard Landry or BQ leader Gilles Duceppe. The US, I'm thinking, by a Democrat, maybe current VP candidate John Edwards or the ever-popular Hillary Clinton (the most likely near-future first woman American President, if there's going to be one). I finally think that Fidel Castro's brother Raul should be the leader of Cuba.

As for your second post, I'm not familiar with the M6 Linebacker (please fill me in), but the AAVP7 is a decent idea, and I always use generic artillery types in my own scenarios anyway, so I certainly agree with that.

	27-10-2004 21:51									#87
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I was watching the CBC's "Greatest Canadian" special last night, in this episode Brett "The Hitman" Heart was making the case for Don Cherry to be the greatest Canadian.

Now that got me thinking, though I do like your idea of a Liberal in power in Ottawa, Prime Minister Copps or something like that, wouldn't it be great if we could work "The Don" into this somehow in a political role? Say what you will about the guy but he is as red blooded a Canadian patriot as you will ever find.

I also think John Mccain could possibly be president in the US. He would be personally enraged by Californian attacks on his native Arizona.

	27-10-2004 22:25									#88
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John McCain as US President I could certainly see. I'm not sure how to work in "The Don," except maybe as a Wonder. As for a Liberal PM, maybe Copps, or even Alan Rock or Pierre Pettigrew. I think Duceppe should head Quebec over Landry (if only that he has more charisma). Harper, Scharzenegger, and Raul Castro still stand as my choices for the Western Separatists, Californians, and Cubans/Floridans, respectively. Any other thoughts (or proposed changes)?

	27-10-2004 23:27									#89
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Nope, those names sound good. Now the only thing left to do is come up with some details for the storyline. During gameplay, I want to have many little event triggered news flashes come up detailing current events such as riots, assasinations, demonstrations and further character development.

	28-10-2004 00:44									#90
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I agree with a steady stream of events to show various news flashes. Some should trigger units to appear (like various militias), while others should focus on being triggered when cities are captured (notably ones like Vancouver, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles) or techs discovered. Note that, on the issue of a Los Angeles captured event, I've posted a request for the gang unit and Hispanic militia on the Modern Grapics Showcase thread, but so far it seems to have been drowned out in discussion of Apache helicopters in the British Air Corps (we'll see if we get them). I'll put my mind to thinking of specific events, and you should too, and I'll post what I come up with a bit later. BTW, I'm also about to start a rough draft of a partial rules.txt for this scen.