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Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

Prince
of the Hoople Heads
Mar 2003
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 06:59
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...us_040926232052

quote:
Greenland looks to US in quest for independence

NUUK, Greenland (AFP) - After 25 years of internal autonomy, the icy Danish territory of Greenland has set its sights on true independence, hoping that talks on the modernization of a US military base on the island may have helped nudge it closer to its goal.

Greenland, which became a Danish colony in 1721, aspires to "before the 300th anniversary of the colonialization ... be capable of becoming master of its own destiny," deputy prime minister of Greenland Josef Motzfeldt told AFP.

Greenlanders have long felt that along with Denmark, the US, with its military base at Thule in the northwestern part of the island, has too much say over their internal affairs.

Following an agreement on the modernization of the base last month however, Greenlanders have begun seeing the superpower across the Atlantic as a potential ally in their quest for self-determination.

"It was (US Secretary of State) Colin Powell (news - web sites) who demanded that we sit at the negotiating table during the (ongoing) overhaul of the 1951 Danish-American Defense Treaty concerning Greenland, to the great surprise of Denmark's foreign minister," Motzfeldt said.

"Washington recognizes us as an equal partner, which is not yet the case with Denmark," he added, pointing out that US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) after taking power in 2001 had even sent a letter requesting closer cooperation on the Thule base and other issues directly to Greenland's local government, and not, as tradition dictates, through Copenhagen.

While Copenhagen has resisted allowing Greenland full independence, it has agreed to an "autonomy commission", made up of both Danish and local politicians, which is currently looking into the thorny issue of handing over sovereignty to the island when it comes to justice, foreign policy, and its mineral and oil resource management.

That could come in handy, since authorities on the island hope the recent discovery of valuable minerals like gold and diamonds, along with promethean promises of oil exploration and rising tourism, will help propel the territory into economic independence and thereby also boost its chances for political self-determination.

Authorities on the island are now preparing to take a decisive -- and painful -- step on their road to independence: squeezing out from under "Big Brother" and saying adios to the approximately three billion kroner (494 million dollars, 403 million euros), or 57 percent of Greenland's total 2005 budget, still paid for by Copenhagen.

"That is our ultimate objective. It will call for hard work, sweat and tears, but the Greenlanders are ready, I think, to pay the price. We want to be recognized as an independent nation, as a sovereign people to be respected," Motzfeldt said.

Over the past quarter century, Greenland with its 57,000 inhabitants, 50,000 of whom are indigenous Inuits, has undergone drastic change, transforming from a community of hunters and fishermen to a modern industrialized society.

But while the quick transformation has brought with it positive development and the island's very own university, Greenland has also increasingly been plagued by social problems like alcoholism, domestic abuse, other violence and suicide.

It is of course uncertain whether true independence would help Greenland shake off its problems, and many of the island's inhabitants worry that bowing too low to US requests on the Thule base, which served as a key listening post during the Cold War, and which is now considered an essential part of Washington's plans for a controversial missile defense program, could cause additional headaches.

"But we haven't said 'yes' to the use (of modernized radar installations) in this missile defense system, which would call for new negotiations," Motzfeldt told AFP.

Greenland, he insisted, does not want to find itself against its will in the midst of new global tensions.

The question is whether the island can afford to go against the US on this issue, and thus risk losing the strongest ally it has in its quest for independence.


Greenland, a possession with a population slightly larger than my suburb. I personally think they might be biting off more than they can chew, but hey, more power to 'em.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:01
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Got spare money?

I am waiting for all the progressive minds of these boards to claim that the right of secession doesn't exist unless there is extreme oppression.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:03
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That was to be an independant nation?

As in free ****ing gratis?

Immortal Wombat is offline Immortal Wombat
Prince
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Dec 2000
time: 05:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:04 Visit Immortal Wombat's homepage!
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Join the club, Greenland.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
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Apr 2002
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:09 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Let 'em have their country. I thought the West had already gotten over their colonization/imperialism craze.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:13 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Well, I don't know the specifics of their situation, but it might be a mistake to cut ties from Denmark, which has alot more resources to draw upon.

One example is that there is only one univeristy on the island, while I am sure there is lots of more opportunity in Denmark.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
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  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:14 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Let 'em have their country. I thought the West had already gotten over their ... imperialism craze.


Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 07:16
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Geez, what next? Is Britain gonna have to give up it's Aussie penal colony?

Whoha is offline Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 08:01
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THE US IS GOING TO INSTALL A PUPPET DICTATOR IN GREENLAND SO WE CAN PUT MORE MISSILE/RADAR BASES THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

Prince
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Mar 2003
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 08:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
THE US IS GOING TO INSTALL A PUPPET DICTATOR IN GREENLAND SO WE CAN PUT MORE MISSILE/RADAR BASES THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


or increase our stockpile of ice for our slush puppies.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 08:43
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57,000 people, 50,000 of which are eskimos, probably living in igloos... why would they want independence? what's the point?

militant eskimos starting a revolution...

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:02
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There are more students in my school district than the entire population of the island...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:05 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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modern technology has made micro-states more viable

Greenland is a big place

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:13
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there are more people in a one mile radius from me than on that whole massive island the size of Argentina...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:21 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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So? It's quality not quantity.

Trip is offline Trip
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Apr 2002
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  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:45 Visit Trip's homepage!
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"Why?" is the wrong question. "Why not?" is the proper one.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:53
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Oh great. Another Newfoundland.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:53
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... Newfoundland isn't independent ...

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 09:55 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Maybe he means Newfoundland IS an independent country, but its economy does not add up to much?

Which he claims will be the same with Greenland now??

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:00
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i never understood something about newfoundland... it was discovered by the a joint effort of Porguese, Germans, and Danes in 1472... why was Columbus credited for the discovery of America when they did it two decades earlier? and why didn't at least the portuguese come back and explore more if they found newfoundland in 1472?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
... Newfoundland isn't independent ...


They were, and then they weren't.

They went on their own prior to WW1. Then they went bankrupt and Britain had to take them back. In the end they opted to become Canada's 10th province (somewhere about 1949, IIRC). We took them because... well they're real good talkers and at the time we were feeling our oats.

I'm sure we'll welcome Greenland too, when the time comes.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Albert Speer
i never understood something about newfoundland... it was discovered by the a joint effort of Porguese, Germans, and Danes in 1472... why was Columbus credited for the discovery of America when they did it two decades earlier? and why didn't at least the portuguese come back and explore more if they found newfoundland in 1472?


Don't know about that. I thought that a bunch of Euros went there to fish, but the English were the ones too stupid not to leave when they were done.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
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Mar 1999
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:11
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Didrik Pining, Hans Pothorst, and Joao Vaz Corte-Real discovered Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and Labrador in 1472-73. It was a joint German-Danish-Portuguese expedition attempting to find what would later be called the north-west passage to Asia. weren't fishermen... they were actively discovering...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:13
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That makes no sense. Why would they be looking for a NW passage before they knew there were twin continents blocking the way going directly west?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:16
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I do accept that fishermen probably beat Columbus to the New World though. I'd bet a small amount that legends of the Norse would have guided them.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:18
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they were actively discovering... the area was known by fishermen for some time, as you said. Corte-Real, et al were attempting to find Asia beyond it.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
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Mar 1999
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:19
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http://www.newfoundland.com/content/about/history.html

quote:
There were a few voyages recorded to Newfoundland during the next 500 years. The Vikings have since deserted their settlements and there were not many records of new settlements. Near the end of the 15th century, Europeans began to search for a Northwest route to Asia and their journeys repeatedly touched onto Newfoundland. Joćo Vaz Corte Real of Portugal sailed to Newfoundland with two Scandinavians, Dietrich Pining and Hans Pothorst in 1472. There were no subsequent voyages from Portugal.


the thing that bothers me is why there wasn't a follow up voyage... Corte-Real, Pining, and Pothorst would be household names if they came back... way to be footnotes in history.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:22
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No gold

Trip is offline Trip
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Apr 2002
time: 00:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:24 Visit Trip's homepage!
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No dead Indians either.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 10:27
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This site might explain it.

http://www.apol.net/dightonrock/Cod..._navigators.htm

quote:
One son, Gaspar Corte Real made two trips to North America. One voyage was in 1500 and the other in 1501. He did not return to Portugal.

His brother Miguel Corte Real, who was the Chief of the Protocol of King Manuel I, came to America in 1502, looking for his brother Gaspar, but unfortunately did not return either to Portugal .


They did go again. More than once. They just failed to return. That wouldn't encourage further attempts.

 
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