30-09-2004 06:39									#271
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3.1, Ned? you dirty hippie... i want to see that authouritarian score higher!

	30-09-2004 08:09									#272
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Try walking into Iran and professing your religion is christianity then you can see what oppression really is. Last I checked in the US we allow muslims and anyone else to practice religion freely. In return they hide in their mosks and plot to destroy the US. Our problem is we're too nice. We go around trying to help people and we just end up getting our hand burned. Better to just wipe the offenders out and focus on our own nation. If you want to attack the US, expect to have your land leveled and turned into a parking lot. That should be our new foreign policy.

And a new Fez is born

	30-09-2004 08:12									#273
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer 3.1, Ned? you dirty hippie... i want to see that authouritarian score higher!

Sorry, Speer. I like law and order, not thought control. (Thinking of Alpha Centauri.)

	30-09-2004 08:20									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But the kind of conservatism you seem to like (Burke) has to do with implementation rather than principles. It is perfectly possible that the world could be such as to allow a free market to be compatible with Rawlsian justice. I do realize that Rawls isn't totally against a market. Though he favors more of a socialist market (with his 4 branches of government). I'm not sure I'm with his principles either, however. I'm not that interested in looking at the least advantaged member of society when deciding economic policy. Remember, I'm an evil capitalist .

Hardly. If you are a Classical Liberal, that is. The "rising tide" theory is compatible with Rawls, and there seems no way to justify the market except that - well, unless you become one of the natural rights idiots.

Rawls conception of justice is completely independent of any particular economics - if a free market could be shown to cohere with the maximin principle, that is fine with him. And in fact, most Classical Liberals and many conservatives argue just that.

	30-09-2004 08:31									#275
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quote: I want you to stop being a muslim, because it is dangerous to me. Some people in your culture want to harm me and my family. I don't think it's too much to ask that you abandon your religion. It's evil.

I'm not Muslim. I'n Christian.

You realise Middle Eastern culture is greatly different from Malay culture?

Its asking a lot to abandon my religion, even if I was Muslim with your logic I think I should ask you to abandon your athiesm, it will plunge the world into moral decay. Its evil like Nietszche is.

Athiesm produces Stalins with no sense of morals that massacres millions. Or thieving criminals and drug lords.

quote: Sorry, Speer. I like law and order, not thought control.

One does not need authoritarian elements to establish order or law.

	30-09-2004 08:32									#276
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Yeah they do.

The bad guys don't respond to anything else.

	30-09-2004 08:38									#277
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Remove socio-economic hierarchy, and crime will be eliminated.

	30-09-2004 08:45									#278
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quote: I don't think it's too much to ask that you abandon your religion.

quote: if a free market could be shown to cohere with the maximin principle, that is fine with him. And in fact, most Classical Liberals and many conservatives argue just that.

I realize that, but I don't think a free market will always correspond with a maximin, except in the long run. Though in the short run, it won't be nice at all to the least advantaged. From the way I read it, Rawls probably wouldn't like that.

	30-09-2004 08:50									#279
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quote: I realize that, but I don't think a free market will always correspond with a maximin, except in the long run.

In that case it is compatible with Rawls - see his chapters on our responsibilities to future generations.

	30-09-2004 09:07									#280
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I don't think so. The Theory of Justice is an indirect attack on property rights IMO.

	30-09-2004 09:14									#281
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I'll counter that by saying in Chapter 46: Further Cases of Priority where he refers to his Second Priority Rule:

"The second principle of justice is lexically prior to the principle of efficiency and to that of maximizing the sum of advantages"

Which I believe many capitalists would not necessarily agree with. While he does have his just savings clause, its his belief that it cannot be that great of a burden on the poor, even if the benefits for future generations will be great (see the discussion on Keynes earlier in the chapter).

And frankly, if I ever ran for President, I doubt Rawls would ever vote for me, knowing a bit of his personal political persuation as it relates to American elections .

	30-09-2004 09:15									#282
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So I have one person saying I'm compatible with the Theory of Justice and another saying I'm not compatible with the Theory of Justice.

Maybe I'll act like a pretty girl and watch you two men fight over me .

	30-09-2004 09:16									#283
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Remove socio-economic hierarchy, and crime will be eliminated.

Idealisitic

	30-09-2004 09:49									#284
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So I have one person saying I'm compatible with the Theory of Justice and another saying I'm not compatible with the Theory of Justice. Maybe I'll act like a pretty girl and watch you two men fight over me .

I think one of us is just screwing with you. Hint: He were fashionable commie attire.

	30-09-2004 09:50									#285
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Neither of you wear fashionable anything! Aggie is a philosophy prof and I've been to college, I know what they where, and you keep saying you are poor and as far as I know that's not in style! So there!

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 30-09-2004 at 10:22

	30-09-2004 10:19									#286
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Overall, the PoliticsForum quiz considers you an individually-orientated, theist, free-trade, kind of person.

These characteristics would put you in the overall category of uncategorisable theist. Your natural home at PoliticsForum would be the Morals & Ethics area.

You scored 36 out of 100 on a scale of Individual vs Social. This means that politically you are less likely to value the need for group actions and group benefit over individual enterprise and benefit.

11% of test takers were more individual than you.
88% of test takers were more social than you.

You scored 38 out of 100 on a scale of Theist vs Materialist. This means that politically you are less likely to believe that religion and spirituality are superstitions that should not inform political debate.

16% of test takers were more theist than you.
83% of test takers were more materialist than you.

You scored 56 out of 100 on a scale of Big Government vs Small Government. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to believe that government should keep out of legislating social policies, leaving such decisions to individuals.

43% of test takers were more big government than you.
54% of test takers were more small government than you.

You scored 47 out of 100 on a scale of Nationalist vs Internationalist. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to favour international bodies over national ones.

23% of test takers were more nationalist than you.
76% of test takers were more internationalist than you.

You scored 91 out of 100 on a scale of Protectionist vs Free Trader. This means that politically you are more likely to favour free trade over protectionist policies.

95% of test takers were more protectionist than you.
4% of test takers were more pro free trade than you.

You scored 56 out of 100 on a scale of Absolutist vs Non Absolutist. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to believe that there is an absolute truth that may guide your ideological beliefs.

43% of test takers were more absolutist than you.
54% of test takers were more non-absolutist than you.

You scored 50 out of 100 on a scale of Controlled Market vs Liberal Market. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to believe that there is need for government regulation of industry.

76% of test takers were more controlled market thinkers than you.
23% of test takers were more liberal market thinkers than you.

You scored 58 out of 100 on a scale of Marxist vs Non-Marxist. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to follow the philosophies of Marx.

80% of test takers were more Marxist than you.
18% of test takers were more non-Marxist than you.

	30-09-2004 11:05									#287
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quote: Which I believe many capitalists would not necessarily agree with.

Why not? Surely most people on the right think that our rights cannot be bargained away for the sake of efficiency.

If a rising tide lifts all boats (even if in the long run), then what is the problem? It isn't only the poor now who matter, but those who are likely to be poor in the future.

	30-09-2004 15:17									#288
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui you keep saying you are poor and as far as I know that's not in style! So there!

Shows how much you know. All the girls at my school wear pants that don't even cover their whole ass.

	30-09-2004 15:32									#289
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui "The second principle of justice is lexically prior to the principle of efficiency and to that of maximizing the sum of advantages" Which I believe many capitalists would not necessarily agree with.

Ah, but you're forgeting that they aren't suppose to know they are capitalists. Efficiency would not be taken into consideration as much because it wouldn't affect their probable condition except at extremes. Also diminishing utility would come into play. I think that's a major part of it.

But you don't agree the the veil of ignorance concept as you led me to believe when you arsed me into this discussion.

	30-09-2004 18:01									#290
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Economic Left/Right: 1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.51

I'm still quiet a centric person, apparantly.

	30-09-2004 18:20									#291
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion he's right wing authoritarian on that comparison thing

According to them, the Pope is more left wing than Schröder. I'd rather put Schröder slightly left and libertarian.

	30-09-2004 22:17									#292
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quote: Surely most people on the right think that our rights cannot be bargained away for the sake of efficiency.

Not talking about rights, but about distribution and allocation of resources. IIRC, that isn't covered under the rights, but under the maximin. Capitalists would say for greater efficiency, the maximin can be violated.

quote: It isn't only the poor now who matter, but those who are likely to be poor in the future.

But Rawls says you can't put too much of a burden on the poor of today. Of course what is too much of a burden is never explained .

quote: All the girls at my school wear pants that don't even cover their whole ass.

And those two inches of cloth probably cost like $50 .

quote: But you don't agree the the veil of ignorance concept as you led me to believe when you arsed me into this discussion.

I'm such a tease

No, I don't agree with the veil of ignorance concept. It seems entirely too contrived.

	30-09-2004 22:31									#293
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Economically the pope is left wing.

	30-09-2004 23:24									#294
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But you don't agree the the veil of ignorance concept as you led me to believe when you arsed me into this discussion. I'm such a tease No, I don't agree with the veil of ignorance concept. It seems entirely too contrived.

I already knew that you didn't agree with it, but you claimed that you just don't agree with the maximin concept, when you actually think that people always make fair judgements without bias to their personal situation. As absurd as that is, that's what you believe.

	30-09-2004 23:45									#295
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BTW, your economic theory and ethical theories contradict each other. You assume self-interest in one and the opposite in the other.

	01-10-2004 02:53									#296
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quote: Not talking about rights, but about distribution and allocation of resources. IIRC, that isn't covered under the rights, but under the maximin. Capitalists would say for greater efficiency, the maximin can be violated.

But efficiency at what? Rising tide theorists would say efficiency at improving the condition of everyone.

	01-10-2004 03:32									#297
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You FAIL. Don't sell your textbook. You need it next semester.

I'm not taking econ

I just don't know what you mean by your question.

quote: At what price does Snickers have to sell their candy bars to sell 50 times as many? How about 100 times? ... 1000 times?

What's the point?

	01-10-2004 03:32									#298
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Oops. Forgot the Sorry

I you too

	01-10-2004 03:34									#299
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Remove socio-economic hierarchy, and crime will be eliminated.

	01-10-2004 03:36									#300
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker

He's right. Super-egalitarian societies like the Amerindian ones had virtually no crime.