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Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:40
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Ramo doesn't care about whether the insurgency strengthens or more of our soldiers are killed, apparently, as long as Bush gets beat in November...

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:49
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I bet Kerry personally leaked the story, right after sucking the brains out of a couple of babies and taking a leak on the graves of the victims of 9/11.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:52
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That's sad, because this will have no impact on Bush whatsoever.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:57
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I agree...

edit: Damn your x-posting, MM!

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 19:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Rigging elections for democracy
Democracy


Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:04
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quote:
Leaking this helps to deter this Admin (and any other) from doing more evil-retarded things like this. And it reminds others of our freedom of press that disinfects gov't abuse.




Do you really think the CIA goes to Congress with everything? I can bet they didn't do so with Iran-Contra. The person who leaked the info thankfully had some ethics and realized that the administration and the CIA must be slapped down from thinking about trying such things in the future.

And as said before, bringing it to Congress indicates the CIA wanted to do it.. so it'd be like the Pentagon bringing a plan of war against Iran before Congress. Which, IMO, we should not be advocating.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 20:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I agree...

edit: Damn your x-posting, MM!


Tell me about it -- I was responding to your post!

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Having plans is not wrong. As TMM pointed out, that's what the CIA is supposed to do. But to bring them actively to the Congress is actually an attempt to do it. And in most crimes the attempt alone is already liable to persecution.


It isn't an "attempt to do it" in your analogy any more than a petition to legalize drug use is smoking it up.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Do you really think the CIA goes to Congress with everything? I can bet they didn't do so with Iran-Contra.


Well, duh. Wasn't that the entire point?

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker


It isn't an "attempt to do it" in your analogy any more than a petition to legalize drug use is smoking it up.


Jail Soros now!!!

debeest is offline debeest
Prince

May 2000
time: 21:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Rigging elections is perfectly fine, if it helps to bring democracy to the people of Iraq.


Yep, we had to destroy the village in order to save it.

You weren't serious, were you?

Sir Ralph is offline Sir Ralph
Emperor
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:23
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I am dead serious.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 21:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk


Right, so instead, everyone will believe this is happening, the insurgency will be strengthened, and more of our soldiers will die.


And the insurgents were waiting for an article in Time before they would believe we had any intention of "influencing" the choice of future Iraqi governments.

If they hadn't read that article, they would have just said "everything's gonna be A-OK, let's just head home."

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 22:10
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quote:
If they hadn't read that article, they would have just said "everything's gonna be A-OK, let's just head home."


Well duh, MtG .

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:22
  Old Post 28-09-2004 23:45
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Evidently, a leopard just can't change it's spots...

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 00:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
The Administration was planning on hijacking the Iraqi elections. That is what they wanted to do. It was only Pelosi et al.'s objections that stopped them. The checks and balances worked, but that doesn't mean that the Admin was acting responsibly.

A responsible Admin wouldn't have seriously considered such a vile act, much less proposed it to Congress.


Oh. I didn't see the part about where this was the ONLY plan they talked with Congress about. Oh wait! The article didn't say that, did it?


I want a CIA that presents ALL viable options to the elected commander in chief and I want a commander in chief that is willing to discuss ALL options with the elected Congress. To my eyes, that looks like what probably happened here. There is NO evidence that this was more than just an option being discussed, but it looks as if you are making the leap that this was an admin plan that those good little Congress people shot down. Yeah, right. If they were planning on hijacking Iraqi elections the first Congress would have heard about it would be long after it happened. You are just looking for a reason to take a slap at Bush based on pre-concieved notions.

A responsibel Admin will consider all options and will decide on the correct one...which is what this Admin has done.

The only problem here is that someone decided to leak top secret info with the goal of damaging this country's leadership and further endanger people on the ground in Iraq. Not only is it criminal but it is the height of irresponsibility.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 00:13 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


Exactly right. Nothing happened with the CIA plan, so it should never have been leaked. It's too bad we'll probably never find out who the POS who released this is...


I'm glad this was released.


It shows that all this "democracy brought to Iraq" is nothing but rhetorical bullsh*t to please American voters who support Bush.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 00:47
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


And the insurgents were waiting for an article in Time before they would believe we had any intention of "influencing" the choice of future Iraqi governments.

If they hadn't read that article, they would have just said "everything's gonna be A-OK, let's just head home."


Are you really going to tell me this dosen't damage our efforts, or that it was a proper thing to do?

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 00:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
If they hadn't read that article, they would have just said "everything's gonna be A-OK, let's just head home."


Well duh, MtG .


That goes for you too, Imran. I know you're against Bush, but this, from you, is really disappointing.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:15
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Plato, could the leaker been Nancy Pelosi herself?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:32
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Bush doesn't believe in Democracy... the neo-cons are all lying *******s.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Bush doesn't believe in Democracy... the neo-cons are all lying *******s.


No, the people who accuse the neo-cons of lying are the liars. It is best to cover up what you are by accusing your opponents of your greatest vice.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned


No, the people who accuse the neo-cons of lying are the liars. It is best to cover up what you are by accusing your opponents of your greatest vice.
is that why the Bushies keep accusing Kerry or being a flip-flopper?

or perhaps that explains why you call Kerry a traitor and stuff.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:16
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Sava, no, this particular skill was learned at the feet of Marx, Lenin and Goebblels. Practitioners of extremist politics of the left or right are very skilled in its technique.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:31 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Right, so instead, everyone will believe this is happening, the insurgency will be strengthened, and more of our soldiers will die.


That's a load of horseshit. We've already stacked the deck in these elections, and the Iraqis can figure that out on their own. An article from the US press about how more election tampering was blocked by the political opposition ain't going to make a single difference on that matter.

quote:
Ramo doesn't care about whether the insurgency strengthens or more of our soldiers are killed, apparently, as long as Bush gets beat in November...


So, instead of leaking this, the press gets no whiff of this, and if Shrub wins the election, he is able to freely implement this plan. Which makes the Iraqi gov't that much less representative of its people and thus seen as that much more illegitimate, strengthening the insurgency, with more of our soldiers dying. Why do you hate American soldiers, you terroristic criminal?

quote:
Oh. I didn't see the part about where this was the ONLY plan they talked with Congress about. Oh wait! The article didn't say that, did it?


The idea that they somehow wanted input on the merits of the suggestion by Nancy Pelosi is bullshit. Clearly, what they wanted was some money to fund the program.

quote:
I want a CIA that presents ALL viable options to the elected commander in chief and I want a commander in chief that is willing to discuss ALL options with the elected Congress.



To my eyes, that looks like what probably happened here.


Oh please. That isn't how it works and you know it.

quote:
There is NO evidence that this was more than just an option being discussed, but it looks as if you are making the leap that this was an admin plan that those good little Congress people shot down. Yeah, right. If they were planning on hijacking Iraqi elections the first Congress would have heard about it would be long after it happened. You are just looking for a reason to take a slap at Bush based on pre-concieved notions.


Having reading problems? From the article:
"A senior U.S. official hinted that, under pressure from the Hill, the Administration scaled back its original plans."

In other words, they were planning to do this, but decided not to due to Pelosi et al.'s objections.

And they are trying to hijack elections. As I pointed out earlier, Sistani has said that the proposed elections will consist of consist of 6 parties, mostly exiles some without popular basis (INC and INA in particular), having pre-approved slates of candidates.

quote:
The only problem here is that someone decided to leak top secret info with the goal of damaging this country's leadership and further endanger people on the ground in Iraq. Not only is it criminal but it is the height of irresponsibility.


The goal is to keep this country's leadership from doing evil and stupid **** in a country that our soldiers are occupying. They're the guys who save lives.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:35
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You guys are still attacking the US for being concerned about Iranian subversion of the Iraqi election?

Un-f*cking-believable.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Sava, no, this particular skill was learned at the feet of Marx, Lenin and Goebblels. Practitioners of extremist politics of the left or right are very skilled in its technique.
I didn't realize Marx was a politician. I always thought he was just some crackpot author.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:47
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quote:
You guys are still attacking the US for being concerned about Iranian subversion of the Iraqi election?

Un-f*cking-believable.


You actually believe that we were merely thinking about countering this alleged "Iranian subversion?" Un****ingbelieveable. Are you that naive?

-Arrian

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 02:56
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Arrian, you have got to have attended a college where the professor's brainwashed you big time about the evil, evil CIA.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
  Old Post 29-09-2004 03:19
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quote:
You actually believe that we were merely thinking about countering this alleged "Iranian subversion?" Un****ingbelieveable. Are you that naive?


Hehe... and, of course, the best way to counter Iranian subversion is to have covert funding actions by the CIA. These Bushies will convince themselves of anything if Dear Leader is connected to it.

 
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