30-09-2004 07:52									#61
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Q Cubed, you are wrong on that score. They were ostracized because they were Catholics in a protestant land.

	30-09-2004 07:52									#62
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recent trends further underscore my point.

practicing catholics tend to identify as conservatives. they now back republicans because democrats don't support the same things they do.

and that last link supports my argument more than it does yours...

	30-09-2004 07:53									#63
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I didn't ask you why they traditionally backed Democrats, simply the fact that they did. Therefore your argument that Catholics are conservatives against the death penalty isn't valid.

	30-09-2004 07:54									#64
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Their turn towards Republicans has been very recent Q so you can't really make that argument since they were against the death penalty when they were democrats.

	30-09-2004 07:54									#65
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quote: Q Cubed, you are wrong on that score. They were ostracized because they were Catholics in a protestant land.

i'm having a hard time finding examples of protestant irish, polish, or italians being welcomed period. or even existing.

and you're right, they were catholics in a protestant land: all of the us was, by and large, protestant.

you could say i'm wrong on that score, but really, when you look at it, it's just another way of interpreting the facts. you're pinning it on their faith, with their immigrant status and ethnicity being side factors; i'm pinning it on their immigrant status and their ethnicity, with their faith being side factors.

	30-09-2004 07:58									#66
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quote: I didn't ask you why they traditionally backed Democrats, simply the fact that they did. Therefore your argument that Catholics are conservatives against the death penalty isn't valid.

it is valid. why? seeing as practicing catholics tend to follow the church's beliefs on matters of faith and morality.

the church does not change its beliefs on matters of faith and morality very often.

the church has maintained for years that capital punishment is just as morally questionable as abortion.
http://www.indianacc.org/tables/postn1.html

i fail to see how or why the position of the church would suddenly change because the church's political allies have changed.

	30-09-2004 07:59									#67
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Well, I happened to know of this personally when my father was ostracized by his protestant family when he turned Catholic and married my mother who was of 1/4th Irish and of 3/4th English descent. Trust me, race had nothing to do with it.

	30-09-2004 07:59									#68
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you still haven't proven your allegation that most catholics are liberals on social issues.

	30-09-2004 08:01									#69
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quote: Well, I happened to know of this personally when my father was ostracized by his protestant family when he turned Catholic and married my mother who was of 1/4th Irish and of 3/4th English descent. Trust me, race had nothing to do with it.

sucks to be him. again, it's an anecdote, so you'll understand that i can't put that much stock into it, right?

	30-09-2004 09:32									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ned There is a correlation between liberal mayors and liberal judges who coddle the criminal element and crime rates -- at least in the US.

Oh pig's arse Ned - we all have a lower murder rate than you and guess what? We all have liberal judiciaries.

It's idiots like you that keep America living in fear.

Why don't you just go away somewhere and die. Or just shut up. Fool.

	30-09-2004 09:45									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Oh pig's arse Ned - we all have a lower murder rate than you and guess what? We all have liberal judiciaries. It's idiots like you that keep America living in fear. Why don't you just go away somewhere and die. Or just shut up. Fool.

do you really know anything about america?

In case you haven't noticed, we have a different culture. A much, much more violent culture.

	30-09-2004 09:50									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident do you really know anything about america? In case you haven't noticed, we have a different culture. A much, much more violent culture.

no you don't. Australians basically think of Americans as pussies. Anyone can be big and tough with a handgun.

	30-09-2004 09:51									#73
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Horse's A, Americans don't live in fear from people who support law and order. Quite the contrary. They live in fear because of the breakdown in law and order.

	30-09-2004 09:53									#74
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resulting from your idiotic lack of gun control

	30-09-2004 09:55									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse no you don't. Australians basically think of Americans as pussies. Anyone can be big and tough with a handgun.

Nice. Why don't you come to America, go to the ghettoes of LA and, when they surround you and your life is on the line, see whether you would rather have a policeman with a gun or a billy club come to your rescue.

	30-09-2004 09:56									#76
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we don't have ghettoes because we have more balls than you

	30-09-2004 09:56									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse resulting from your idiotic lack of gun control

Sure, sure. Of course. Bowling for Colombine anyone?

	30-09-2004 09:56									#78
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admit it - your country is f*cked

	30-09-2004 09:58									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse we don't have ghettoes because we have more balls than you

So only ***** gangster live in ghettoes? Really?

Let's put you in prison white these cowardly gangster where they have no guns. Let's see what happens to your Horse's Ass then.

	30-09-2004 09:59									#80
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Ted - you miss the point - in our country - the gangsters took over - we ARE the gangsters - you fool.

	30-09-2004 09:59									#81
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Horse, I agree because we have so many fuzzy-headed liberals trying to help the poor but who only end up keeping the ghetto permanently in business on the government dole. The urban ghetto is the liberal's reservation for non Indian minorities.

	30-09-2004 10:00									#82
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You wouldn't last 5 minutes in this country

	30-09-2004 10:00									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Ted - you miss the point - in our country - the gangsters took over - we ARE the gangsters - you fool.

Good for you. At least gangsters know right from wrong and choose wrong.

	30-09-2004 10:01									#84
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You want your ghettoes fixed? Give me a couple of months.

	30-09-2004 10:01									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse You wouldn't last 5 minutes in this country

If I carried a gun, I'd at least would take out a few of you first.

	30-09-2004 10:02									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse You want your ghettoes fixed? Give me a couple of months.

What? Fix them. NOOOOO! You'd be robbing the Democrats of their base!

	30-09-2004 10:03									#87
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No you wouldn't. Trust me, I have your measure.

Basically you're all talk. You never pulled a trigger.

	30-09-2004 10:13									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Ted - you miss the point - in our country - the gangsters took over - we ARE the gangsters - you fool.

*ahem*

	30-09-2004 10:14									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse No you wouldn't. Trust me, I have your measure. Basically you're all talk. You never pulled a trigger.

Yes I have.

	30-09-2004 10:17									#90
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No worries