01-10-2004 12:45									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse It's more a rule of troll guild not to troll other trolls

I'm relatively new at this, forgive me.

	01-10-2004 14:23									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I have the advantage of having been in both God I was glad to get home.

Where did you visit AH? Did you get a chance to stop in Minnesota at all?

	01-10-2004 19:47									#123
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quote: I thought you were alright, as Americans go...

I've never known an Aussie IRL that was a major *******, and you were no exception. Nice meeting you.

	01-10-2004 21:14									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I wonder how Canada's murder rate compares to the states along it's border.

You do realize Michigan is a border state right??

Well if youwant to do and apples to apples comparison, you would have to segregate out the relatively large number of murders in the Canadan far north ( murder rate is by far the highest in the territories) from the "Canadian" total.

	01-10-2004 22:02									#125
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Oh and I found this site http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/region.htm

While the graphs are not precise enough to get a truly accurate reading, thee are some detailed stats.

New England region consistently has the lowest murder rates in the US at around 2.4 per hundred thousand followed by West-north -central US at 3.2. All other regions are over 4 .

So the lowest region in the US is still significantly higher than the average for all of Canada. (The lowest regions in Canada can often approach zero)


The good news is that the US homicide rate appears to be down markedly. ten years ago it was routinely around 9 per hundred thousand while in the last 5 years it has stabilized around 5.5.

	01-10-2004 22:59									#126
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Toronto, pop 4 million, annual murders 90
Detroit, pop 950,000, annual murders 350

Enough said. Americans have a problem that they won't face up to.

	01-10-2004 23:03									#127
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No fair for choosing Detroit

	01-10-2004 23:04									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Ned There is a correlation between liberal mayors and liberal judges who coddle the criminal element and crime rates -- at least in the US.

There is a correlation between urbanity and liberalism, and there is a correlation between urbanity and crime. The correlation between liberalism and crime derives from that. It's not causal, as you suggest.

	01-10-2004 23:06									#129
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quote: Originally posted by GePap No fair for choosing Detroit

Well look at the link I posted-- Even the US best region doesn't come close to the canadian average

	01-10-2004 23:07									#130
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Republican mayors in New York who get tough on criminals = a sharp reduction in murder rates. It's not a coincidence.

Liberals need to support taking back their streets from the criminals (few Republicans live in these cities with warzones) and to disavow the prevailing uncaring attitude toward people who get murdered just because they're in dangerous criminal enterprises or buy from dangerous criminal enterprises. For instance, it's not OK when drug users get offed by their dealers because they haven't paid. NYC seems to understand this fact, after electing pansy democrats to mayor for a couple of decades.

Added to this should be greater information sharing among jurisdictions (these enterprises are linked) and greater involvement by the FBI in taking down these enterprises.

Last edited by DanS on 02-10-2004 at 00:15

	01-10-2004 23:20									#131
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Actually, as Flubber numbers show, Liberal taxachussets is safer and has less crime than Good Ol' Texas.

	01-10-2004 23:21									#132
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It's all those Mexicans.

	01-10-2004 23:23									#133
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Republican mayors in New York who get tough on criminals = a sharp reduction in murder rates. It's not a coincidence. Liberals need to support taking back their streets from the criminals (few Republicans live in these cities with warzones) and to disavow the prevailing uncaring attitude toward people who get murdered just because they're in dangerous criminal enterprises or buy from dangerous criminal enterprises. For instance, it's not OK when drug users get offed by their dealers because they haven't paid. NYC seems to understand this fact, after electing pansy democrats to mayor for a couple of decades. Added to this should be greater information sharing among jurisdictions (these enterprises are linked) and greater involvement by the FBI in taking down these enterprises.

As a non-new yorker, what do you know?

The reduction on crime was base primarily on new police tactics, NOT changes to the criminal code or "being tougher on crime" at the courthouse level. That and broad socio-economic changes like the end of the crack epidemic. NY has never yet used its death penalty, and if anything there is broad agreement to end the harsh Rockefeller Drug laws, from the 70's, which are the most strict drug laws in the country (and did nothing to stop the crack epidemic)

	01-10-2004 23:28									#134
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Republican mayors in New York who get tough on criminals = a sharp reduction in murder rates. It's not a coincidence.

It's got nothing to do with Repub vs Democrat.

Death penalty, Republican Texas has a murder rate of 6/100,000 compared to Ontario with less than 2/100,000.

And the effects of a repub mayor in New York is not that significant. Murder rates declined in the 90s throughout the US, regardless of demo or repub politicians.

	02-10-2004 00:08									#135
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quote: The reduction on crime was base primarily on new police tactics

Precisely. And who set the tone on that? Who supported the police to do what was necessary? Guiliani. A Republican mayor.

quote: Death penalty, Republican Texas has a murder rate of 6/100,000 compared to Ontario with less than 2/100,000.

The problem is in our big cities. That's where you get these whacked out murder figures. Rural and suburban America are pretty safe places. Front line enforcement is handled at the local level. Who holds the mayoralities in the big cities of Texas? Dallas had a murder rate of 20 per 100,000 inhabitants. Democrat. Houston had a murder rate of 13 per 100,000 inhabitants. Democrat. Who is the mayor Detroit? Who holds the mayoralities of almost all big cities in the US? Democrats.

Just look at the city statistics of murder for 2001.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl06.xls

In Washington, D.C. -- where I live now -- there were 40 murders per 100,000 inhabitants. There's a war zone right down the street from me. Run by democrats. In my home town in Ohio there were 0.00 murders per 100,000. Run by Republicans.

	02-10-2004 01:07									#136
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Republican mayors in New York who get tough on criminals = a sharp reduction in murder rates. It's not a coincidence.

Democratic mayors in most big cities = sharp reduction in murder rates. See my post above: it's not that liberals cause crime, it's that cities have high crime rates and cities tend to be run by liberals.

"Toughness" didn't cut the murder rates, broad societal changes did. Shrinking of the violent adolescent age group, better economy, reduction of the crack epidemic. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

	02-10-2004 01:37									#137
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Precisely. And who set the tone on that? Who supported the police to do what was necessary? Guiliani. A Republican mayor.

Or Rudy, the ex-prosecutor.

quote: The problem is in our big cities. That's where you get these whacked out murder figures. Rural and suburban America are pretty safe places. Front line enforcement is handled at the local level. Who holds the mayoralities in the big cities of Texas? Who is the mayor Detroit? Who holds the mayoralities of almost all big cities in the US? Democrats. Just look at the city statistics of murder for 2001. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl06.xls In Washington, D.C. -- where I live now -- there were 40 murders per 100,000 inhabitants. Run by democrats. In my home town in Ohio there were 0.00 murders per 100,000. Run by Republicans.

God, you are insane, aren't you? Who prosecutes the crime and controls the justice system? Oh, that the Governors. Learn your civics before you say something silly.

	02-10-2004 01:54									#138
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quote: Originally posted by GePap God, you are insane, aren't you? Who prosecutes the crime and controls the justice system? Oh, that the Governors. Learn your civics before you say something silly.

And GePap... who exactly is the Governor of Washington D.C.

	02-10-2004 01:58									#139
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HA ha ha

IIRC LA has had an increase in gang violence-even with a republican mayor-and Chicago has also seen a significant drop in crime, while the likelyhood of a republican mayor there is between 0 and none.

Again, in terms of crime laws, that is a state issue.

	02-10-2004 02:07									#140
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quote: Again, in terms of crime laws, that is a state issue.

Who said anything about the laws? Murder is illegal in every state in the union. But democratic political machines and mayors -- the people who have authority over city cops and can put a stop to this mess -- are the ones responsible for these horrid murder statistics.

I think you need to face the reality that the Democratic Party is little more than extension of organized crime in most big US cities.

	02-10-2004 02:08									#141
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Now let me get this straight GePap... are you really trying to say that the Governor of Illinois runs Chicago

Yeah, they are in charge of the state laws, but the city has it laws as well... and, the city runs the police force.
And is in charge of the Prosecution Office. All the key things in the city are controled by Mayor Daly.

(Chicago has anti gun laws not enforced anywhere else in the state)

And many have questioned whether the drop in crime in Chicago has more to with the way the information is being reported vs reality

	02-10-2004 03:16									#142
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Chicago is more freedom-loving than Canada, though. Chicago shows compassion, and lets the murdered people vote.

	02-10-2004 04:23									#143
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quote: Originally posted by debeest There is a correlation between urbanity and liberalism, and there is a correlation between urbanity and crime. The correlation between liberalism and crime derives from that. It's not causal, as you suggest.

This might be true if there were no examples of cities with Republican mayors and tough Republican prosecutors that did better on crime.

But there are. Check out New York City under Giuliani.

Chicago is sorely in need of a Republican mayor.

	02-10-2004 04:27									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Chicago is sorely in need of a Republican mayor.

Something about a cold day in hell...



We won't be seeing a republican mayor in the city of Chicago in our life times, and neither will our children

	02-10-2004 04:28									#145
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Ming, the Coach could win.

	02-10-2004 04:30									#146
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As the coach as shown, there is no way in hell he is going to let the press take a close look at his finacial records... And face it, the dead people and whinos would still vote democratic early and often

	02-10-2004 04:33									#147
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Agreed, Ming. The National Democrat party would never let the Chicago vote farm fall to the enemy.

	02-10-2004 07:08									#148
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How is there any kind of local democracy in a place when the tilt reaches such a degree that only one party can ever win under any conceivable circumstances?

	02-10-2004 08:46									#149
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quote: How is there any kind of local democracy in a place when the tilt reaches such a degree that only one party can ever win under any conceivable circumstances?

Easy. A party tilts to a regional bias and it gets stuck. Or "birds of a feather flock together," and large numbers of like-minded people move to certain places.

For example, the people of Louisiana have not once in their history elected a Republican Senator (since Reconstruction). The Democratic Party was very well aligned with LA in the 1800s and through the mid 20th century, but less now (although still close).

Or the rise of the rich whitey suburbs.

	02-10-2004 11:01									#150
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My what an entertaining thread.

Well anyway the city where Muddy Waters was laying down his great music can't be too bad of a place.