01-10-2004 07:31									#181
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I thought Kerry began well, faded a little bit in the middle, and finished very strongly. By criteria that usually decide debates, Kerry won. But the media will probably change that.

I hope people spotted that Bush deliberately misquoted Kerry a couple of times (things Kerry said in the debate).

	01-10-2004 07:31									#182
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Kerry is our next president.

	01-10-2004 07:32									#183
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quote: I thought Kerry began well, faded a little bit in the middle, and finished very strongly.

Yep.

	01-10-2004 07:33									#184
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i thought kerry got w0rk3d. flippin' and floppin'.

	01-10-2004 07:33									#185
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Kerry: I fought in Vietnam. If Iran can't have nukes, neither can we.

	01-10-2004 07:33									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka And this is where a person who understand nuances of english language and basic communication KNOWS Kerry IS NOT insulting the allies. Ask the allies, are they insulted? GO ahead, ask'em. They're not insulted. That's not insulting. That's A FACT. The coalition can be stronger. To say, that's an insult to the allied effort.. how is that?

Kerry called some of our allies "bribed" and "coerced". That is insulting.

	01-10-2004 07:33									#187
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Verto, if Bush wins, I don't admit that as the reason. I say the reason Bush would win is because he took the center of the ring at first. He will do that in the future as well. I say if he wins, that's the reason.

	01-10-2004 07:34									#188
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i think kerry was definately wrong about the n korea thing too...

	01-10-2004 07:34									#189
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hahah Verto you are mad because Kerry has a vision of peace for the entire world? When NOBODY has nuclear weapons?

	01-10-2004 07:35									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak i thought kerry got w0rk3d. flippin' and floppin'.

He didn't. At the end when he pointed out that Bush is avoiding the issue he was very clear.

He voted for force, but expected it to be used as a last resort and with a proper coalition. It wasn't so he thinks the war was a mistake.

	01-10-2004 07:35									#191
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the diplomat, duh, some of them were. That's not even the point, the point is, who fo the allied is insulted? I have never heard any allied expressing disgust for this. They're not insulted, not because I say so, but because the allies says so.

	01-10-2004 07:35									#192
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Kerry called some of our allies "bribed" and "coerced". That is insulting.

Some of them WERE... like BULGARIA!!! Come on now!!!

	01-10-2004 07:36									#193
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Hell, Blair wants Kerry to win.

	01-10-2004 07:36									#194
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I'm sorry, but this was major pwnage.
Kerry had facts and confidence and such. Bush keps stalling and repeating the same arguments over and over and over again, wasn't able to defend himself at all.
I really expected Bush to come out on top...Kerry definitely won this one.

	01-10-2004 07:36									#195
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Bush could have done better in countering Kerry's arguments. Kerry made a lot of false statements about Bush that should have been dismissed but were allowed to slide. Also Bush should have illustrated Kerry's flip flops not just claimed it.

	01-10-2004 07:36									#196
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pwned

	01-10-2004 07:36									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Sava hahah Verto you are mad because Kerry has a vision of peace for the entire world? When NOBODY has nuclear weapons?

A nice vision, but full of delusion. And no, I'm not mad because he has that vision.

	01-10-2004 07:37									#198
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Amazing! People's views on the debate closely mirror their own personal bias! I never would've predicted it.

	01-10-2004 07:38									#199
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I still don't think there was a clear winner.

	01-10-2004 07:38									#200
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drake

	01-10-2004 07:38									#201
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Shields thought Kerry won, Brooks thought it was a tie. Average the two, and you get a smaller Kerry win.

	01-10-2004 07:39									#202
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Drake, Unfortunately not mine. I posted my grade early on and I think Bush tanked this one. Kerry weasled well IMO.

	01-10-2004 07:39									#203
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I don't think there was a CLEAR winner either, I mean a landslide victory to neither one.

I say we need to settle this by the way of.. nude wrestling.

	01-10-2004 07:40									#204
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BTW, anyone know if there's a way I can watch the debate online in a few hours? I doubt NHK is going to re-broadcast it...

	01-10-2004 07:40									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Sava hahah Verto you are mad because Kerry has a vision of peace for the entire world? When NOBODY has nuclear weapons?

The problem is that while we disarm, a rogue state like NK won't. We made a deal with NK under Clinton that they broke and built nukes anyway. So under Kerry, the US will cease building bunker buster nukes so we won't have them to defend ourselves but NK will continue to build nukes so they will have. We get weaker while NK gets stronger. It's not a good policy.

	01-10-2004 07:40									#206
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I think a coin toss for first turn at roshambo.

	01-10-2004 07:40									#207
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I thought Bush did a good job. Stayed on message. You could tell that Kerry was itching to begin a two hour long senate speech.

	01-10-2004 07:40									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I still don't think there was a clear winner.

No, Bush was pwnd. He ran out of things to say, god knows how many times he used the "If you disagree with me, your demoralising the troops" argument too many times for too many subjects. Bushs "arguments" were mainly "I'm right" or "My opponent agreed with me before" without actually defending his argument.

Of course, this is all going to backfire...Americans will think that Bushs ignorance is "cute" or "down to Earth" or whatever.

	01-10-2004 07:43									#209
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no idea... Bush Roks!

I score it even, maybe with Bush up as it was clear what he to get across; Kerry is a flakey dork... Where as Kerry's; Bush messed up,.... is old and over played.

We'll see how the media and the public handels this.

	01-10-2004 07:43									#210
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I give this one to Kerry easily.