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Oncle Boris
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Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Uhmm. You are aware that the major gaffs in the last campaign came from candidates from Ontario and BC, aren't you?
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To tell the honest truth I wasn't, since I was travelling in Slovakia during the campaign. My reference to 'Albertan rednecks' was meant to be amusing. Of course people from everywhere can be morons.
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The difference between the Tories and the Liberals is that the media aren't on a witch hunt for Liberals during national campaigns. There is plenty of dirt in the Liberal house.
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In Quebec this is absolutely right. The federalist press here is super pro-Red. However aren't the media held by CanWest more favorable to the Tories?
quote:
Also, you are aware that Day was a creature of Reform, and not a Tory, aren't you? Admittedly the parties did merge. However, the significant bit is that control of the party is done based on equality by riding. That means that the ridings in NS (or Montreal) with 100 members have as big a voice in the party as the ridings in Calgary with 1000 or 5000 members. In short, the Tories won by holding out til the Western Snit Fit parties said 'give' in the name of ending the rule of Liberals.
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Of course I am aware of this. I was just pointing towards the strawmen that the Tories will have to get through. The fact remains though that the 'new' Tories are much more right-leaning than the Mulroney era ones. In a Mulroney-like government, abortion and DP would probably be non-issues.
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I wouldn't call a bunch of closet seperatists middle of the road.
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First, they weren't separatist before 1992, and second, my point still holds that politically they were center/center-right.
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I think seperatism is a dead issue as long as nobody throws a grenade into the chicken coop. Ideas of national pride aside, nobody in Canada has economic reasons to leave at the moment.
Like an old saying, no fuel, no fire. |
If the Bloc didn't exist that would be fine. However it does and in its current state it is making the country barely governable. You could wait for its slow death, but... as long as the country is ungovernable this will stir up ****, and **** is good for separatists in general.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
In Quebec this is absolutely right. The federalist press here is super pro-Red. However aren't the media held by CanWest more favorable to the Tories? |
More balanced, but still indulgent of the witch hunts.
Problem with the Conservatives is that the brush used to tar Reform/CA was still fresh enough to apply to them during the last campaign. Eventually things will settle and the whole country can get on with it.
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Of course I am aware of this. I was just pointing towards the strawmen that the Tories will have to get through. The fact remains though that the 'new' Tories are much more right-leaning than the Mulroney era ones. In a Mulroney-like government, abortion and DP would probably be non-issues. |
I agree the Tories are a ways away from being the party of Stanfield and Clark. It will take a bit, but the Reds will come back (I did). There is no other place from which to effect government in Canada in a positive (to them) fashion.
If abortion is such an issue for the Conservative party (they have brought no bills forward) why is it that the only people bringing abortion legislation to the House are Liberals?
The fact is that there are loons (to someone) in both parties.
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If the Bloc didn't exist that would be fine. However it does and in its current state it is making the country barely governable. You could wait for its slow death, but... as long as the country is ungovernable this will stir up ****, and **** is good for separatists in general. |
I agree. We are at the crossroads. Does Quebec continue to send strong contingents of seperatists to Parliament, allowing only MPs from a single other national party? Or do they return to the fold and elect a few Tories from time to time.
The Tories aren't gonna ever form a government without seats from Quebec. If by some slim chance they ever did that would be very good for speratism, I think.
In the absense of the Tories being able to form a government once in a while, there will be no end to Liberal governments. That in itself is eventually going to lead to levels of corruption that will also lend to support for seperatism.
I guess I'm supposing that federalists in Quebec have a choice to make. Ignore the Tories and leave the nation in the ever more corrupt grasp of the Liberals and thus play into the hands of the seperatists; ignore the desires of the ROC to change government when and if the ROC supports the Tories enough to force a slim majority over the lack of any MPs from Quebec and thus play into the hands of the seperatists; or bury the hatchet that is based on a man and a government that has been dead and buried politically for getting near twenty years and return to a party that offers the only real alternative to endless Liberal government.
I'm thinking that they will be able to rebuild in Quebec. There was a time when the thought of a Liberal in Alberta would have led people into hysterics of laughter. It still happened, because times changed, people changed, and the people of a couple of ridings in Edmonton decided that a couple Liberals from here abouts is a good idea.
I think, or hope, that the same thing can happen for the Tories in some parts of Montreal and around Ottawa.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
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Duceppe has a liking for playing chicken. This could get really good.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...tion041005.html
quote:
Tory amendment could bring down Liberal government
Last Updated Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:01:12 EDT
OTTAWA - The Conservatives will present an amendment to Prime Minister Paul Martin's throne speech on Wednesday, saying party members likely won't approve the government's agenda without first making changes to it.
RELATED STORY: Throne speech lays out Liberal plan
Delivered by Governor General Adrienne Clarkson, Tuesday's throne speech opened the new session of Parliament and laid out the Liberal agenda.
Stephen Harper and Jack Layton listen to the throne speech.
INDEPTH: Full text and video of the speech
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper said he'd meet with his caucus on Tuesday night and prepare the amendment to deliver to Martin's minority government.
While he wouldn't reveal what amendments his party – the official Opposition – would ask for, Harper did say that tax reduction and democratic reform were both missing from the throne speech.
"There really wasn't much there," he said of the speech. "This really is the vague Liberal program repeated."
Tory deputy leader Peter MacKay, who called the throne speech "vacuous and devoid of detail," said his party would like the Liberals to deliver an action plan on how they'll implement their future plans.
"It's difficult for the Conservative party to support this document how we see it," said MacKay.
INDEPTH: Canadian government
The Conservatives plan to amend the speech with priorities they believe are important to Canadians, said MacKay.
Bloc Québécois leader Gilles Duceppe, whose party holds 54 seats in Parliament, didn't offer much support for the speech, saying he'd like to see it amended.
"If no change is made to it, the Bloc will vote against the throne speech" said Duceppe.
The opposition parties will vote on the speech later this month. Opposition parties traditionally vote against the speech, but losing the vote could bring down the Liberal minority government.
If they gained the support of the one independent MP, the Tories and BQ would have enough seats to vote down a Liberal-NDP bloc.
NDP Leader Jack Layton said he doesn't want another election and has no desire to bring down the government. He offered lukewarm support for Martin, saying the speech moved "in a good direction."
Layton said he was disheartened that the prime minister didn't provide specifics on child care and the gas tax, he was pleased about Martin's offer to look at electoral reform.
"We're not sure what it means, but it's welcome to hear those words," said Layton.
With its 19 seats, the NDP is seen as the most likely parliamentary partner for the Liberals.
However, Layton said he was disturbed that debt reduction was the most detailed aspect of the speech. The Liberals vowed to reduce debt-to-GDP radio to 25 per cent within 10 years.
"I think if you do the math, [it's] the most expensive item in the whole project, which gives you some sense of the priorities," said Layton.
"The words on the gas tax were even softer than we've heard in years, and so naturally, that gives us cause for concern."
Written by CBC News Online staff |
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06-10-2004 05:10
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