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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
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http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...ment041004.html
quote:
Martin promises to push Liberal agenda through minority Parliament
Last Updated Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:01:40 EDT
OTTAWA - Canada's first minority Parliament since 1979 opened Monday, a day before the Liberals set out their agenda in a policy-setting throne speech.
INDEPTH: Minority government
Opposition leaders Gilles Duceppe, Stephen Harper, and Jack Layton (CP file photo)
The Liberals won only 135 of the 308 seats in Parliament in the June 28 election, meaning they will have to rely on the Conservatives, New Democrats or Bloc Québécois to pass legislation.
Although the opposition parties have all indicated they don't want to go to the polls soon, the Conservatives have said they will make the provocative move of introducing amendments to the throne speech.
Tory Leader Stephen Harper, who complained that the Liberals didn't consult the opposition when they were drafting the throne speech, said the Conservatives will try to force a vote on the amendments his party introduces.
If the amendments are not accepted, Harper has warned his MPs may vote against the throne speech, which could trigger the collapse of the government if the NDP and Bloc Québécois follow suit.
Yet Harper said he is in no hurry for a quick election, instead accusing the Liberals of wanting to rush back to the polls.
"I think the government's strategy will be to have an election as soon as possible," Harper said. "Maybe not this fall, but I think the government wants an election."
On Friday, Prime Minister Paul Martin said a quick election is "very much dependent on the opposition parties.
"We've been very open with them, we've made it clear we want it to work. We're prepared to consult with them," Martin said. "We have our agenda. We were elected on our agenda and we intend to carry it through."
RELATED STORY: Milliken again Speaker of Parliament
Liberal House leader Tony Valeri, who has to try to keep peace between the four parties in order to keep his party in power without triggering an election, said there is a line the Liberals won't cross.
"If opposition parties were to come with proposals or initiatives that were completely in contrast to what the government is intending to do, then those are areas that we won't compromise on."
NDP Leader Jack Layton echoed Valeri's remarks, saying his party "will co-operate but we will not capitulate.
"What we've seen so far is minimal, absolute minimum communication between Mr. Martin and his ministers and the opposition parties whose support he's going to need to pass legislation," Layton said.
The last minority government, led by Progressive Conservative Joe Clark in 1979-80, lasted only nine months before it was brought down in a budget vote.
Written by CBC News Online staff |
Scuttlebutt is that the Tories want to push either the NDP or the BQ into supporting the Liberals. Preferably both, but the BQ are the real targets.
What I heard was that the Tories hope that the BQ want a crack at as much of the federal money per voter per annum as possible and so will hopefully side with the Liberals consistently whenever the Tories make waves on confidence issues.
If it works, it's brilliant. The next campaign is fought in Quebec by telling people there that the BQ is only a vote for yet more of the Liberals. While in the ROC the Liberals get tarred with sucking up to seperatists to stay in power. In both cases it is guilt by association.
Anyway, the thinking goes that the Tories can do nothing but gain by taking their role as Official Opposition seriously and pressing it. All of the Liberals, NDP, and BQ stand only to lose when it is made clear to Canadian voters that a Tory majority is the only way to actually change governments in Ottawa.
It's gonna be an interesting couple of years. I'm glad Harper stuck around.
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Oncle Boris
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Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Well, it would be a shame if the Tories are as dead as you say they are in Quebec. |
I think they are. Stockwell day has permanently ruined the reputation of this party. Things might have changed with Harper in the lead (as he did make some efforts to moderate the rightist slant of the party's program), but at its root the party is still the same, with the same idiotic MPs from Alberta getting laughed at from time to time when a declaration about gays or abortion or religion breaks in the media. Anything homophobic, religious or against abortion in Quebec is a ticket to electoral defeat.
Remember, at its core the BQ is still composed of MPs from the Mulroney government. There is no more of their center-leaning balance on the Tory caucus.
quote:
It would be the end of the country, most likely. Quebec has to choose a federalist alternative to the Liberals or the nation is toast. |
Quebec's general opinion on the matter hasn't changed. Meech was fine. Charlottetown wasn't enough. Unfortunately, a pan-canadian party that endorses anything close to Meech will have his ass raped in the West anyway. I don't see any viable federalist alternative popping up in the next decade or so. Seriously, do you?
My bet would be that federalism should kill separatism at its root, i.e. by destroying the PQ, which requires a strong government by Quebec's liberals and a lot of financial advantages like the ones Martin has just granted us in the latest talks.
quote:
We will be stuck between increasing Liberal temptation (corruption) and alienation of a significant part of the nation. My money is on federalists coming to senses sooner rather than later, like after a 60% 'Oui' vote. |
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that after a 60% 'Oui', the federalists would likely be wiped out of the electoral map except Montreal. 
quote:
The NDs could have an outside chance of usurping the Tories' traditional role as alternative to give the Liberals a break from power. Real long shot though. |
Loooooong.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
I think they are. Stockwell day has permanently ruined the reputation of this party. Things might have changed with Harper in the lead (as he did make some efforts to moderate the rightist slant of the party's program), but at its root the party is still the same, with the same idiotic MPs from Alberta getting laughed at from time to time when a declaration about gays or abortion or religion breaks in the media. Anything homophobic, religious or against abortion in Quebec is a ticket to electoral defeat. |
Uhmm. You are aware that the major gaffs in the last campaign came from candidates from Ontario and BC, aren't you?
The difference between the Tories and the Liberals is that the media aren't on a witch hunt for Liberals during national campaigns. There is plenty of dirt in the Liberal house.
Also, you are aware that Day was a creature of Reform, and not a Tory, aren't you? Admittedly the parties did merge. However, the significant bit is that control of the party is done based on equality by riding. That means that the ridings in NS (or Montreal) with 100 members have as big a voice in the party as the ridings in Calgary with 1000 or 5000 members. In short, the Tories won by holding out til the Western Snit Fit parties said 'give' in the name of ending the rule of Liberals.
quote:
Remember, at its core the BQ is still composed of MPs from the Mulroney government. There is no more of their center-leaning balance on the Tory caucus. |
I wouldn't call a bunch of closet seperatists middle of the road.
quote:
Quebec's general opinion on the matter hasn't changed. Meech was fine. Charlottetown wasn't enough. Unfortunately, a pan-canadian party that endorses anything close to Meech will have his ass raped in the West anyway. I don't see any viable federalist alternative popping up in the next decade or so. Seriously, do you?
My bet would be that federalism should kill separatism at its root, i.e. by destroying the PQ, which requires a strong government by Quebec's liberals and a lot of financial advantages like the ones Martin has just granted us in the latest talks.
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that after a 60% 'Oui', the federalists would likely be wiped out of the electoral map except Montreal.
Loooooong. |
Federalism now means staying the course and making it work. Anyone who attempts to mend things should be avoided.
If I had my druthers, I'd have locked Tredeau and Mulroney up in a cage together and shipped them to a zoo in Haiti.
I think seperatism is a dead issue as long as nobody throws a grenade into the chicken coop. Ideas of national pride aside, nobody in Canada has economic reasons to leave at the moment.
Like an old saying, no fuel, no fire.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It's a good push against all the Liberal voters in Ontario, and the Maritimes, who want to keep Canada together.
Don't discount the Maritimes, as if the Conservatives pick up seats there, it makes it much easier to win the 155 needed for a majority.
I like the strategy of contesting EVERY confidence motion. Even if the BQ vote with the Conservatives, then you have managed to topple the Liberals, and you have another election right away. |
The maritimes are dumb though, they love holding the hand that smacks them.
But anyways, I think the Conservative strategy is potentially a great one. I may be a democrat in the US, but in Canada I'm true blue all the way baby, yeah! Or I might just be ant-Liberal more than anything though.
Very very interesting time for politics in Canada. These coming months will be something else...
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:21
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quote:
The Liberals have been very good to the maritimes, in terms of distributing largesse. The Conservatives will put them in better stead in the long run. |
I know that and you know that, but maritimers aren't quite so quick. I was talking with someone from Nova Scotia before the election and he said he was afraid of the Conservatives because under them " we wouldn't get anymore handouts".
Handouts good, economic self sufficieny bad.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Too bad nobody in Quebec is falling for the lie that those two parties are the same simply because they both have "conservative" in the name... |
They're still fundamentally the same, hence the merger.
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05-10-2004 10:01
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