07-10-2004 03:46									#91
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Canadian politics:

	07-10-2004 22:35									#92
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Jack Layton says the BQ and the Conservatives are maneuveuring to form a government. They'll vote down the throne speech and then request the GG to let Harper form a minority government.

I think this will happen. The Liberals are not going to accept the BQ amendments.

	08-10-2004 03:34									#93
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Doubtful, but if it turns out to be true this is big news.

	08-10-2004 03:40									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris I think that it is required to enterinate the legitimacy of the government, but I'm really not sure.

That seems a rather weird design. Why would the new legislature have to vote one whether or not it was legitimate?

	08-10-2004 07:38									#95
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A party can form a government with less than a majority and they do so at the invitation of the GG (monarch). Now, the GG might have made a mistake in who was invited to form a government, and that choice may be one vehemently opposed by a majority of Canadians. Hense, any government must survive the vote by our elected representatives on the throne speech.

It is as it is for exactly the situation we are in now. The GG has invited a party to form a government and that party is far short of having a clear mandate. These Liberals may be fine, and it may be the correct choice for them to form the government, but the ability to defeat them and end their government is a safeguard against the country having an illegitimate government forced upon it by an unelected monarch (or GG).

	08-10-2004 08:00									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That seems a rather weird design. Why would the new legislature have to vote one whether or not it was legitimate?

To make sure the minority government has enough support to govern.

If political party A can't get support for its first vote then there's not much point for it to contunue being the government.*

*In parliamentary systems, "government" refers to the political party that is in power unlike the American system where "government" refers to the entire system.

	08-10-2004 11:02									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That seems a rather weird design. Why would the new legislature have to vote one whether or not it was legitimate?

What NYE said but I'll try to make it simpler.

Don't forget, the government in Canada is made with the elected representatives. Ministers have to be elected, and are deputies from a district on top of their ministry charges.

The General Governor invites the party with the most seats to form a government. The leader of this party is the Prime Minister, who then appoints his cabinet from his pool of MPs. Then he has to do the Throne Speech. In the case the governing party does not have the absolute majority to pass the speech, well then I'm not sure what happens.

The Governor might invite another party to form a government if there are clues that its speech could be accepted (in this case, I guess that the Bloc would make support of the Tories public) or a new election has to be called.

There are probably mistakes in this, as the procedure is , but that's roughly it.

	08-10-2004 12:36									#98
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I keep reading BQ as "Burger Queen", for some reason.

	08-10-2004 12:46									#99
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If only they were.

	08-10-2004 13:00									#100
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I keep reading BQ as "Burger Queen", for some reason.

That's because their both tasteless, manufactuered wastes of money.

	08-10-2004 17:15									#101
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither A party can form a government with less than a majority and they do so at the invitation of the GG (monarch). Now, the GG might have made a mistake in who was invited to form a government, and that choice may be one vehemently opposed by a majority of Canadians. Hense, any government must survive the vote by our elected representatives on the throne speech. It is as it is for exactly the situation we are in now. The GG has invited a party to form a government and that party is far short of having a clear mandate. These Liberals may be fine, and it may be the correct choice for them to form the government, but the ability to defeat them and end their government is a safeguard against the country having an illegitimate government forced upon it by an unelected monarch (or GG).

How in hell would the GG or the monarch ever actually force an unelected government?

	08-10-2004 23:08									#102
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Illegitimate government, not unelected. The GG is unelected.

The GG might invite a party to form a government when that party couldn't survive confidence motions in the House, but they would still have the powers of cabinet (which are substantial) until they were tossed on a motion. The throne speech being a confidence issue cuts to the chase.

Basically, the government is appointed (from elected reps). They are then confirmed or rejected by the elected representatives of all of us. That confirmation or rejection happens with the throne speech.

	08-10-2004 23:47									#103
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Illegitimate isn't quite the right word, although it is close, but what determines legitmacy? Who should form a government when there is no clear majority?

In our system, the first nod goes to the party that gains the most seats (elected politicians). If that party can gain the support of a majority of the elected representatives then it can form the government, but if it can't the GG looks at the situation and says, can another party form a government. If the answer is yes, then that party is given a chance to govern. If no, then a new election is called.

It's quite democratic.