09-10-2004 06:16									#1
	so whats with all the people who are unhappy with the games they buy? Support Apolyton

ok, let me review my own experiences.

First PC game i bought was SimCity2000. Saw it on PC for sale when i was PC shopping. Matched a craving id had for something like that from before i had a PC. Got the game, played endlessly.

Im at an acquantances house, and hes just bought AOK, and is all eager to show it off, so i go take a look and play a bit. Its cool - i buy AOE cause its cheaper, and i like to do things in order when possible - i got my money worth out of that. Even bought the xpack.

A friend suggests Civ2. Im not sure (civ or AOK?)so i ask online (not here, of course) So i know what im getting into. Sounds good, so i buy it. Well y'all know what a great deal that was.

At some point i find this place. Each games im thinking of getting, i check out here, elsewhere on the net, etc. Play a demo if i can, and its not big a dl.

And ive never been surprised. the games that were poor (like Myst) i knew would be, and i didnt get gypped cause i only paid like $4 for it. I mean i knew the "vaule proposition" even without a demo.

Yet people complain constantly about all the bad games theyve bought, how theyve gotten ripped, etc. Dont make sense. I mean Id only buy a first release game if I was SURE it was what i wanted. After that youll have info. I mean theres really no excuse.

	09-10-2004 06:39									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well a couple of games i've bought i've done the research into will i like the style of game etc and once i've bought it hit technical problems. Couple of examples are Wizards & Warriors (unable to progress beyond certain point), Europa: The Guild (loads of problems), Railroad Tycoon3 (graphical glitches) and Silent Storm (CTD every 5 mins). All games i'd like to play (probably) but the developers/publishers seem unwilling to fix the bugs, crashes etc that some players get. I know i'm not alone as i follow postings on forums but some games are supported better than others.

I suppose the answer is wait and follow the forums but then i'd probably have a very, very long wait before buying and you never know whether your setup will be one of the (normally) few that the game doesn't like.

But there's still the problem of a reviewers/posters weighting as to what they personally like. MOst magazines here in the UK are completely against turn based games so often you have to read between the lines. In Medieval:Total War i stopped playing because i found the startegic map so unrewarding (and pointless) but you have to do a lot of research to spot that.

	09-10-2004 07:23									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Impatience and a lack of broadband or knowledge of 'alternative methods of purchase'

	09-10-2004 07:41									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Standup Well a couple of games i've bought i've done the research into will i like the style of game etc and once i've bought it hit technical problems. Couple of examples are Wizards & Warriors (unable to progress beyond certain point), Europa: The Guild (loads of problems), Railroad Tycoon3 (graphical glitches) and Silent Storm (CTD every 5 mins). All games i'd like to play (probably) but the developers/publishers seem unwilling to fix the bugs, crashes etc that some players get. I know i'm not alone as i follow postings on forums but some games are supported better than others. I suppose the answer is wait and follow the forums but then i'd probably have a very, very long wait before buying and you never know whether your setup will be one of the (normally) few that the game doesn't like. But there's still the problem of a reviewers/posters weighting as to what they personally like. MOst magazines here in the UK are completely against turn based games so often you have to read between the lines. In Medieval:Total War i stopped playing because i found the startegic map so unrewarding (and pointless) but you have to do a lot of research to spot that.

well yeah, theres the incompatible system issue. Ive hit that - AOK didnt like my CDrom software, and the Talonsoft Campaing series doesnt like something.

I was thinking more of gameplay - and I dont follow the mags much, other than for a general intro - its the forums - and you dont have to wait more than a couple weeks at most for most games.

	09-10-2004 07:42									#5
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Impatience and a lack of broadband or knowledge of 'alternative methods of purchase'

My whole point is you dont need to dl a game to avoid being disappointed.

	09-10-2004 08:09									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I hate myself. Esp. when I buy games in a genre that I don't like because I get caught up in all the hype. I should know better.

And games like Black and White I bought out of ignorance. I really didint' understand the gameplay would be like a RTS game.

in summary. I'm an idiot.

	09-10-2004 08:39									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was disapointed in Rome: Total War, even though my system meets the minimum specs., the game runs very slowly even on the lowest graphics setting. Since I lack broadband, ther was no way a demo could have prevented it. It's true I could have waited a year or two, but the reviews sounded so great...

	09-10-2004 09:00									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was pretty upset paying top dollar for Call to Power, only to find it didn't run on my computer.

The expansion to SMAC I also found a let down.

Recent disappointments have included Splinter Cell - I believed the hype and found it totally unsuited to my taste. I actually hate the game, chiefly because of the American propaganda the game oozes.

Knights of the Old Republic was also a dramatic let down. I believed the almost universal praise for the game, but found it deadly boring and cliched. I also thought the graphics substandard.

Otherwise I'm fairly happy with the games I have bought, and have been surprised by how good a game was more than I've ever been disappointed.

Last edited by Bkeela on 09-10-2004 at 09:57

	09-10-2004 23:25									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I hate myself. Esp. when I buy games in a genre that I don't like because I get caught up in all the hype. I should know better. And games like Black and White I bought out of ignorance. I really didint' understand the gameplay would be like a RTS game. in summary. I'm an idiot.

maybe i was too harsh? there are worse things than being games unintelligently

And of course the incompatibility issues are still a major problem, I admit.

It helps to have some idea of what the person praising something likes. thats one reason a forum like this works better than a mag review, unless you really follow that particular reviewer. And that wont work for a really unique game - someone whose tastes have always been close to yours may react differently to something new than you do.


I didnt mean to say one couldnt OCCASIONALLY make a mistake - just I dont see it as reason to A. Whine on regular basis about how often one has been disappointed in ones purchase or B. Pirate.

	10-10-2004 03:54									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

my success rate is about 80% maybe 85%. So I really can't complain.

	10-10-2004 04:17									#11
	Got spare money?

I just complain when I'm stupid enough to fall for the hype, and I was following the build for months. Eg. MoO3, ToEE - I expected greatness.

Not complaining about today's purchase though

-Jam

	10-10-2004 05:19									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Which is?

	10-10-2004 05:50									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I'm rarely unhappy with a purchase. Why? I recieve gifts Reviews are worth little (Civ3, Black and White, etc demonstrate this). If I had never ever bought a game simply because I wasnt completly sure....(Or gift a game, for that matter) My knowledge of gaming would be near zero. Unlike you, my impatience prevents me from waiting 2-4 years just to verify that a game is good and OK to purchase

I hate to think what you do when youre impatient to try some hardware, or some food, or a car or whatever.

Might i be so bold as to ask what you do for a living? My boss is sometimes impatient for my work, but i expect to be paid for it regardless.

	10-10-2004 05:52									#14
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Jamski I just complain when I'm stupid enough to fall for the hype, and I was following the build for months. Eg. MoO3, ToEE - I expected greatness. Not complaining about today's purchase though -Jam

well let me ask you this, jam, since youre one of the more knowledgeable people here. How long after MOO3 came out did you buy it? (yeah, i understand SOMEBODYS got to buy games first, or who would we learn from, but presumably most of us will only do that once in a while)

	10-10-2004 07:12									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark My whole point is you dont need to dl a game to avoid being disappointed.

And my whole point was that alot of people are impatient and want to get the game as soon as possible, without bothering to do in-depth research.

	10-10-2004 08:36									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Jamski I just complain when I'm stupid enough to fall for the hype, and I was following the build for months. Eg. MoO3, ToEE - I expected greatness. Not complaining about today's purchase though -Jam

haha- you bought ToEE.

actually I heard it's a halfway decent dungeon romp. But that's all it is. Lots and lots of combat.

	10-10-2004 08:40									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

also another thing to mention is if you wait too long to purchase a game, you miss out on some multiplayer enjoyment of it.

Although granted, if the game is any good at all, the people should continue playing in the multiplayer servers well after the initial release (diablo2 for example- yes this game is good- I'm no rpg snob). But this isn't true in all cases. There are some smaller games that aren't big budget, that are actually good games. And you can play multiplayer on them. But because it's a small game, it won't have many people on the servers. And that number dwindles from time of release.

This doesn't apply for single player only games of course. but it's something to think about. We all know how hard it can be to find players for games like SMAC. Granted we have places like Apolyton to make it better. PBEM's are fairly easy to find. But not playing a regular game straight through.

	10-10-2004 18:08									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There's also games that are right genre, style, gameplay etc for me but there's just one small thing that i don't like. Occasionally it's enough to make me stop playing or get really frustrated. Two that spring to mind are Civ3 (the combat) and Locomotion (reliability) - both games that otherwise would be exactly the sort i play.

	10-10-2004 18:44									#19
	Remove this text

The only game I hated enough to take back for a refund was War of the Ring. I was also disappointed with MOO3, Dune 2000, Emperor Battle For Dune, The Sims, and Ultima Ascension.

Aside from those few, I've never regretted buying a game, even if I don't play it much anymore. Though I do tend to stick to the genres I know and love best. Real Time and Turn Based Strategy, Role Playing and the occasional First Person Shooter.

	10-10-2004 22:09									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

Neverwinter nights, which still wont run on my computer even after a graphics upgrade and patch... when it SHOULD run... is my worst mistake... since I paid $50 for it and haven't gotten more than 30 minutes of reasonable fun out of it without a crash...

i bought it to design adventures and I can't even do that it's very frustrating.

	10-10-2004 23:13									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: well let me ask you this, jam, since youre one of the more knowledgeable people here. How long after MOO3 came out did you buy it?

I bought it the day BEFORE the US release in a small shop in Germany /

I was probably one of the first ones to get it over here in Europe.

Ah well...

-Jam

	11-10-2004 15:40									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

so whats with all the people who are unhappy with the games they buy?

I buy quite a few, but over the last 5 years or so i seem to find the majority of them disapointing in comparison to games i bought from before that time.

Dissident mentioned broadband connection being one issue, which in the UK is a problem. Only over the last few years living in London have i had regular broadband connection, in the uk many places just dont have large bandwidth access.
So for downloading big patches or trying to find help info on game forums it can be slow+expensive with dial-up?

On PC Civ2(and to some extent CTP ) was probably the last game that really grabbed my attention if i'm brutaly honest about it. There have been a few other decent games for me since then, but not in the same league as the classic Civ2.

I'm now a console junkie as well(i've bought about 20 games in the last few years) - and i've not been too impressed with the games on xbox, most are very shallow/short and violent eye candy sugar treats

Of those 20 odd games 2/3 have kept me coming back for more, many months after first playing(Morrowind and either of the two football managment games i've got).

Until three to four years ago, i never even looked on the internet before buying a game. I would rely on games magazine reviews, or what freinds recomended.
Now i nearly always look online to see the gossip before buying, especialy since game magazine reviews can be complete hype.
Even so, for me i seem to find many of todays games rather an empty experience

Last edited by child of Thor on 11-10-2004 at 15:48

	11-10-2004 19:04									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I like games until people tell me they're bad.

	11-10-2004 20:15									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I like games until people tell me they're bad.

That's why I don't trust reviews, and automatically take initial opinions with a grain of salt. I have different standards and don't really like other people with their radically different standards raining on my parade when I am actually enjoying a game.

Like one time, I read a review of Knights of the Old Republic, written by a Star Wars hater (weeks after I'd already bought it BTW). I don't care about the opinion a Star Wars hater has about a Star Wars game. As a moderate Star Wars fan, my standards are radically different and my opinion takes into account my interest in Star Wars as well as the gameplay and graphics.

Besides, there will always be that element of purists who are wishing the game is more like it's predecessors (Civ III anyone?), or more like a different game by a rival developer. There will always be that element impatient with a bug-laden initial release (Civ III PTW for example). And there will always be that element who for unfathomable reasons hate the game, period, and have nothing better to do than whine about it.

You can't trust any single person to tell you that you'll think a game is bad. When they say it's bad, it's only their opinion, good for them. Others may share that opinion, good for them too. But I'll rely on my own instincts and my own taste, thank you.

In short, to each their own.

	11-10-2004 21:29									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What has made a huge difference to me is I'm no longer caught up in the 'next new thing' mindset.

The games that I have the most fondness for are games that I got within two years of my first computer purchase. Those were the games that helped define what type of game genre(s) I liked. I tended to buy what sounded interesting, and then quickly discovered whether I liked it or not. I got burned on several purchases that way, but I also learned what to look for.

I am convinced that as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to replace the wow factor that I had the first time I loaded up some of those early games. All current games are simply variations of earlier games - some with better eye candy and perhaps a better AI, but really not all that different.

Most games I have bought have given me some degree of enjoyment. And rather than play a particular game into the ground, I rotate in and out of games - a couple of weeks ago, I fired up a game of 'Emperor' - the last time I played that was probably a year ago. I did the same with civ3 last month. If there were no new games released, I would survive with what I have.

I'm also hitting the target bins. I got AOW1/AOW2 a few months ago at CompUSA for $10. One of the best game purchase for the price I ever made. At the same time, I also got 'Majesty' for $5, and quickly learned that it wasn't for me. Better $5 than $35...

The only upcoming games I'm keeping an eye on are 'Crusader Kings' (which actually has been out for awhile, but not in the States) and 'Children of the Nile'. If I do not get them for gifts over the holidays, I'll wait for a price drop, and maybe give 'EU2' or 'Pharaoh' another runthrough.

Last edited by hexagonian on 12-10-2004 at 18:44

	11-10-2004 21:42									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i rarely get disappointed with games i buy - usually when i buy a game i know what to expect, because i look for info before i spend any money on it.

sure, sometimes i break this rule - i bought civ3 and grand prix 3 at first sight.

i think that the only game that has ever disappointed me was The Sims. i knew what to expect from the game, and i though it would be interesting ( i like simulations) and when i first played it i thought: "hey, this game is great!". ten minutes later i was sleeping over my keyboard.

	12-10-2004 03:50									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by DaShi I like games until people tell me they're bad.

It's kind of funny when I feel the same way. I really should avoid public forums.

I liked civ3 until everyone said it was bad. Then I stopped playing it. I eventually came back to it though.

	12-10-2004 14:42									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Alex edit........ i think that the only game that has ever disappointed me was The Sims. i knew what to expect from the game, and i though it would be interesting ( i like simulations) and when i first played it i thought: "hey, this game is great!". ten minutes later i was sleeping over my keyboard.

I think Dr.Spike might call this another ringing endorsment

I actually find different peoples opinions useful before buying a game, especialy if im not 100% decided on if i might like it or not. Sure i might not always agree with someones opinions, but its exactly those different opinions that give a much better/truer overal idea of a game than many magazine reviews.

For example i was one of those guys really looking forward to Fable.
I knew it was coming out in the US first, so i've been able to see people opinions of it here on poly. The overal remarks people were saying having played the game, made me decide not to buy it - i'll probably rent it first, but it has saved me £40 on a game i might have otherwise been disapointed with.

	12-10-2004 17:54									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

quote: Re hardware: I can usually return hardware, allowing for a "trial" period re food: If I didn't taste any other food simply because it might be bad, my diet would mainly consist of bread and potatoes. Re a car: Most dealers do allow cars to be tested before you buy it. I'd never buy a car without being able to try it first.

Yup, you test drive the car, and if you like it you buy, and if you dont you return it. You DONT get to say, well it costs $10,000, but its a lousy car so its only worth $3000, so i'll keep it but not pay for it. After having driven it for weeks.

Ditto for hardware, etc.

quote: Should I look at some hardware, study it indepth and wait 2-4 years for everyone to say its okay before buying it?

Does it really take 2 to 4 years. While thats how long ive waited, it seems to me disappointment can be avoided by waiting a few weeks, maybe a couple of months at most.

quote: Luckily, through gifts, I'm able to take these risks without incurring large financial expense.

Well if these are real gifts, then its the person giving it to you thats taking the risk, I suppose. I once gave a copy of Caesar 3 to a friend, and ive given my daughter games as gifts. If its piracy, OTOH, youre no luckier than someone who happens to have good skills as say a car thief.

	12-10-2004 17:59									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd And my whole point was that alot of people are impatient and want to get the game as soon as possible, without bothering to do in-depth research.

and thats fine, if someone decides theyve got the money to afford the risk. Heck SOMEBODY has to buy the games first, for the rest of us to see feedback. Its the folks who say ive got to get games in that first wave, BUT I cant afford the risk of paying for a bad one, that ive got a problem with.


I would also suggest that the ability to sell your used game may reduce the risk somewhat. Though not for a dog like MOO3, obviously. But if someone had bought SMAX, and then found it wasnt quite to their taste, they actually could have come out ahead.