 |
|
-SafaN-
|
|
yeah its rather delicate: we cant do anything with GS atm while the PEG is crucial, and defensive/offensive techs are important.
I'm not joining in the diplomacy because this is my first game vs other humans. I don't know what is normal, and what isn't.
Greetz
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
I posted this in the embassy.
quote:
Reply to : Kassiopeia
***
The price for Gene Splicing (250 credits with a 20 year trade restriction) is open for negotiation, if you feel the price is too steep feel free to propose a new on.
On behalf of the Junta,
quote:
We will consider your offer to negotiate the price of the tech.
I know it is worth something, but I'm not sure how much.
Although I am not an expert, I know that if is not the tech that we need right now, then having it will slow down our overall tech rate. Because of this, Gene Splicing might not be worth that much to us right now.
Our tech experts and finance folks should be able to decide how much.
On a separate note:
We understand that you have a convienent tech supply vendor nearby. Could you send us a list of techs you can acquire as well as details as to their price and availability?
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.
|
|
So what do we want to do?
What do we want to offer them?
I'm not sure I want to ignore them. They tend to not like that (if they were a woman I'd call them high maintenance).
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
The Spartans have added as possible techs we can get
High Energy Lasers
Secrets of the Human brain
High Energy Chem
Optical Computers
That is in addition to Gene Splicing
I think we should get High Energy Chem from them. Plasma steel will be good for a long time.
I think we should try to buy contact info from them, especially for the Gaians. I have suggested them using a probe team operation, with us providing subsidies in exchange for any stolden tech (giving us lower prices than 250 EC / tech).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
I will take that as a go ahead with asking for HEC and commlinks from the acting CEO.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
I am aware the purpose of a diplomat is to slit the enemy's throat without them objecting. That's why I'm not diplomat.
If we get this tech / probe team deal going, we will
1) get tech at relatively low prices (vs 250 energy)
2) it will take them time to build and send in the probe teams
I think the Spartans will get tech from the AIs with or without us. This way we get some as well.
Furthermore, since the Morgan team has not agreed to subsidizing of their probe teams, we can cancel the deal, or demand outrageous terms (stalling it).
If they are serious in getting our help in researching D AP (which I am not confident they are), they will have to give us synth fossil fuels.
We should get some deals going, but nothing big and they will go slowly. We do not know what the other humans are up to. Right now if they are conning us about this 'gaian-angel' alliance, I would not be surprised, especially since the Spartans got IA somehow last turn.
I guess it would be a good idea to stockpile energy for the next few turns, so we could rapidly build a military if we find out military action is intended against us by the Spartans.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
What do we want to do about the non-existent level of commerce income Sparta is earning?
Because they are earning nothing we are sharing half of our total commerc income. This represents all the ECON, right?
I expected to be giving them some credits but not half.
I say we need to honor the treaty, but make noise with them asking them how we can help them earn more commerce.
Perhaps this may lead to more tech trades.
At the very least they we realize (if they have not already) that they are getting a very good deal and that they should NOT ask for more.
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
The Spartans have stated they do not trade military technology or comm links. That might actually work out for us if it help keeps the other humans from getting contact with the AI  Especially since they don't even have flex yet (and we should reach the AIs soon, and they'll be more useful than the humans, and not ask for revenue sharing.
I want to work trade deals with all the humans, and shortly afterwards get elected governor in 10-15 years. It's a long shot, but a beautiful one. My evil plan would involve getting another human faction (prob Spartans, but don't know now), and us being able to influence the vote of the AIs in favor of us.
I would like to ask the Spartans if they know how the Gaians & Angels got contact without doc: flex.
Should we put down we are interested in Ethic calc, human psych, and maybe secrets of human brain? We are going to need demo for 18 bases.
Last edited by arginine on 20-10-2004 at 08:43
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
Kass Posted this in the embassy:
quote:
Note, though, unless we are pacted to the faction wanting to trade. The other Lieutenant Colonel of the Junta, Googlie, will elaborate on this, but I am willing to state that the Junta has been seriously considering the possibility of allying itself with Morgan Industries, recognizing the way our two factions would complement each other. I recommend your faction starts a discourse on this possibility of extended co-operation as well.
More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year. You must agree to not build the Citizen's Defence force, however, and you must not trade the technology to a third party (or gift a unit with an ability allowed by the traded tech to a third party) for 15 mission years.
For the Junta and the Federation,
Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta. |
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
I posted this reply:
quote:
Reply to : Kassiopeia
quote:
Note, though, unless we are pacted to the faction wanting to trade. The other Lieutenant Colonel of the Junta, Googlie, will elaborate on this, but I am willing to state that the Junta has been seriously considering the possibility of allying itself with Morgan Industries, recognizing the way our two factions would complement each other.
|
Our two factions could complement each other very well.
Please note that if we were to Pact we would need to modify the sharing of the Morgan bonus. Right now we are being hurt by giving half our commerce income to you. If, as a result of Pacting all our bases go to [Morgan get 3, Sparta gets 1] ECs from commerce, then under the current terms we would have to send Sparta 1 EC per base that has commerce. With all the allocation and ineffciency issues we'll be losing even more money from the deal than we are losing now.
quote:
***
More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year.
|
H'mmm an Installment Plan. I'm not sure we need it or want it at that price, but the idea of an installment paymnet plan allows for a lot more flexibility.
Please be aware that Pacting would be a significant event. The Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws would require substantial consideration by all the shareholders before we could agree. Although the benefits could be many, and the sooner we act the sooner we could both benefit, we don't want to be rushed into a decision.
Let's talk about it but not be hasty.
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp. |
I want to keep them talking but not rush into anything.
What are the dangers of Pacting?
What are the benefits?
I'm thinking (not too deep I know) offhand:
They get to see details of all our bases. They get to see how weak we are militarily. I am not sure I want them to see our internal garrisons, support, and production until we have some better defenses.
I am not sure I want to enter into a Pact until we meet the other factions.
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
 |
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
|
|
With a pact, they'll know how little military we have. They've already seen two coastal cities with no garrison, so the worst of that kind of damage is already done.
They know where we are. If we pact, I'd want to know where they are. We would have to trade screen shots of our world maps, or at least maps of our respective home turfs in relation to the Hive.
Giving them ec's over 10-15 years for a tech is a great idea. Don't tell them I said that, because I mean great for us. If we owe them something, they'll be less likely to attack us. Inflation is big in SMAC... payment over time is in cheaper and cheaper dollars, plus we don't lose as much to "opportunity cost". (Opportunity cost = what we could have built with the money we gave away, including the return on the investment.)
However, before we jocky too much for techs, we should make every effort to steal what we can from the AI, especially PK's and Zak, and I guess Yang, too.
I don't have a lot of time for considering everything in depth, so everybody please read what's going on and express your view. It will help if it's more of a group decision, and not overly reliant on a less and less available COO.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
We don't know how much the AI will charge for their techs and use of probe teams will guarantee war with an AI. We want commerce with the friendly AIs and avoid war with Yang. Our best option would be to have a proxy human steal techs from the comps and trade them with us. Unfortunately the Spartans are not being as cheap as we like and if there is indeed a Gaian-Angel alliance of sorts the other humans might not be receptive either.
I suggest we declare to the Spartans that we hope to acquire by nonresearch means some techs (lacking military value) and potentially buy from them. Namely we declare the techs Social Psych, Ethic calc, Secrets of the human brain and gene splicing and we might buy them in the future. We should also try to trade biogenics to high energy lasers (which they know we don't have).
I guess we are waiting to get contact with the AIs before we buy tech from the Spartans.
If we had the backing of the Spartans, we will have 1 more vote for the planetary concil (global trade pact) and for planetary governor. The spartans might also be able to influence the friendly AIs to vote for us 
I personally want to get trade agreements with the other humans for as long as possible, then run for governorship and pass the global trade pact.
Last edited by arginine on 21-10-2004 at 21:58
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
We'll get the human commlinks by trading them from the AI in about 10 turns. I bet the Angels are below us since the gaians? got contact with the spartans first. Either way, once we find an AI, the vessel goes straight south for human territory.
I would like to propose that we and the Spartans will eventually agree to prevent Angel or Gaian ships from entering our interior waters. Namely, we would monitor & guard our western side, and the Spartans would guard their eastern side. Also this agreement would be kept secret and we merely say they are not allowed to enter their territorial waters.
We tell the Spartans we will look to acquire Social Psych, Ethic calc, Secrets of the human brain and gene splicing and we might buy those techs from them. We should also try to trade biogenics to high energy lasers (which they know we don't have). We want them to go for intelecutal integrity ASAP and get it (so we can research planetary economics)
Also tell them we won't need the techs for several years (except for maybe High Energy Lasers).
I think we agree not to do anything major until we get contact with at least the AIs and probably the humans. Namely, we might trade a tech or two, make small payments ~10 EC / turn, but do little more.
Last edited by arginine on 21-10-2004 at 22:02
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
Latest from the embassy:
quote:
quote:
Reply to : Kassiopeia
A copy of a personal memorandum from Captain Googlie to your CEO Chaunk (or possibly another Morganite senior executive such as jtsisyoda) has come to the Junta's attention. I am personally not aware of its contents, but by order of Lieutenant Colonel Maniac, senior officer of the Junta, please disregard its contents.
Captain Googlie has been cashiered for his intemperate actions.
|
Huh? What happened?
quote:
What comes to your displeasure at our current profit sharing arrangement, I have been instructed to pass on the Junta's response: we are prepared to reduce the status of our relationship to a Truce if that suits your economic model better.
|
No, it's OK, even though it's costing us more than we wanted, we agreed to the treaty deal and we will honor it.
quote:
I have also been instructed to tell you that at the present time, after careful thought, the Junta does not consider a pact with Morgan Industries to be a likely option. I have, as you put it yourself, been hasty on this matter.
|
We understand your wish to be deliberative. We of course remain open to considering a Pact. Your suggestion initiated considerable discussion with the Corporation; which is still ongoing.
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.
|
I have a few questions and observations.
1. What are they talking about regarding Googlie?
2. Why are they trying to get out of the Treaty and avoid the Pact?
2. Are they trying to be coy with us?
4. Or do they realize that we will have the PTS this turn (how?), are now vulnerable to attack, and want to take us out before we make contact with other factions become dominate?
5. Do we want to buy Ethical Calculus now to make use of it, and to give them an incentive not to attack?
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
|
|
Yesterday I received a "confidential memo" from Googlie. It was very long. He was not acting officially, but he was trying to lead a small group within Sparta that was interested in pacting. I hadn't gotten around to responding and hadn't decided whether to bring it up to you guys before doing so. Dealing with splinter groups doesn't help when they're put in the brig during the invasion, know what I mean?
Edit: Googlie must've fessed up, or someone in his "inner circle" of Pact-seekers leaked it to Spartan leadership.
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 22-10-2004 at 10:13
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
|
|
I say buy Eth Calc on the payment plan, for the peace incentive, and since we'll have some more bases very soon. Otherwise, we might need 50% psych to control the drones, due to inefficiency losses at perimeter bases. But try to bargain it down a little with a lower counteroffer. If they don't budge, try offering the same ec's, but pay less now, more later... e.g., instead of 10 every year; do 8 for the first few years, then 10, then 12 in the later years.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Micha
|
 |
Technical University of Ilmenau, Germany
Oct 2002
time: 06:21
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jtsisyoda
I say buy Eth Calc on the payment plan, for the peace incentive, and since we'll have some more bases very soon. Otherwise, we might need 50% psych to control the drones, due to inefficiency losses at perimeter bases. But try to bargain it down a little with a lower counteroffer. If they don't budge, try offering the same ec's, but pay less now, more later... e.g., instead of 10 every year; do 8 for the first few years, then 10, then 12 in the later years. |
Excellent. Let us reduce the first payments as much as we can, added together we might even offer them more than they want. Always remember that the first payments will generate compound interest, so effectively they´re worth much more than later payments of the same nominal value.
I also prefer getting EthCalc instead of using half of our budget for non-profitable purposes like calming down poor drones.
Regarding the Spartan policy, I expect invasion soon. Let´s hope I´m wrong, but let´s also prepare as well as we can.
Lastly: jts, would you please share Googlie´s memorandum with the other boardmembers? The supervisory board cannot accept secret information transfer between a board member (even if it´s a senior manager) and the competitors...
[could you please at least tell us more about the content? thanks ]
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
I believe the fact they were debating to Pact with us or not means they don't have an invasion force ready at a moment's notice.
If we are truly concerned about Hive invasions then get naval superiority. I believe we can get that by building coastal bases in the SE and E. We make those bases size one then make some ships.
Meanwhile, we hope we can get weapons tech from the AI. If we want to be aggressive, we can begin research on high energy lasers.
Last edited by arginine on 22-10-2004 at 21:22
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
|
|
The memo isn't really relevant. Googlie can't operate on his own, and neither can I. I don't really see the point of the thing, except as role-playing. I replied to Googlie to that effect, and no more... so "information exchange" is not the proper term.
Perhaps this is a silly attempt to sow unrest by creating some kind of conflict, since the memo is labelled "confidential", but then they tell everybody about it. Trying to put me in a no-win position of sharing/not-sharing. I suggest we drop the whole thing and get back to real strategy.
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 22-10-2004 at 22:32
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
Latest from the embassy:
quote:
quote:
Reply to : Kassiopeia
***
More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year. You must agree to not build the Citizen's Defence force, however, and you must not trade the technology to a third party (or gift a unit with an ability allowed by the traded tech to a third party) for 15 mission years.For the Junta and the Federation,
|
Thank you for your offer to sell us EC. We would like to purchase it, but considering the restrictions you are placing on its use or subsequent transfer we would like to pay 90 EC.
We offer to purchase it (with the restrictions you impose) for 6 EC per year for 15 years.
If you accept, please post your acceptance and send it to us preapproved.
Please note that this offer, of course, will no longer be available if we acquire EC from another supplier.
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:21.
Apolyton Time is 00:21. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
15-10-2004 19:14
HEC and commlinks
![Visit Impaler[WrG]'s homepage!](/forums/images/homepage.gif)
|