17-10-2004 03:02									#1
	Eliminate the Electoral College Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

How do we go about getting rid of the Electoral College? This institution has clearly outlived its usefulness.

I say this because the candidates only campaign in swing states. The rest of the country hardly even matters to them. Bush was going to come to Delaware, but then he was rescheduled or something. Kerry never even made the attempt as far as I know.

We may be looking at another election where the winner of the popular vote will still lose.

Any thoughts?

	17-10-2004 03:11									#2
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Enlightened absolutism

	17-10-2004 03:12									#3
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I think the EC has long outlived it's real purpose. This lose the state by one vote crap and get nothing for it is just stupid. It is also another way to keep third party candidates out of the way.

	17-10-2004 03:26									#4
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But chances are it won't change except by a national amendment (fat chance) because states won't split votes for fear of losing power (ala Colorado) and end up in the same boat as states like Texas or California.

	17-10-2004 03:29									#5
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Like it or not, the electoral college is part of the power compromise among states of different sizes. Personally, I don't want to reopen that set of issues.

	17-10-2004 03:31									#6
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Not going to happen, but it would be EXTREMELY interesting to see how things would play out if the US implemented proportional representation and parliamentiarism.

	17-10-2004 03:33									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Personally, I don't want to reopen that set of issues.

Why is that?

	17-10-2004 03:37									#8
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Because then the US would be torn apart by CIVIL WAR!!11!!1

	17-10-2004 03:45									#9
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Removing the electoral college will reverse the campaign stops... small states will then be ignored, and the larger states getting more attention. In a way, it will increase the "cost of entry" to a candidate. Instead of being able to focus dollars in the cheaper swing states.. the big states would become more important, and are far more expensive to advertise in.

Hmmmmm... that would make for more profits for advertising agencies and PR firms... Hmmmmm....

	17-10-2004 03:51									#10
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of course the rest of the country means something. But the fact is they are all democrat or republican, so no sense campaigning there.

But that doesn't mean the person elected is going to ignore the state's platform and desires. Except Bush with regards to Nevada. He ass ****ed us on the Yucca mountain thing. But you know what? I knew he would. I voted for him anyways in 2000.

	17-10-2004 03:54									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I think the EC has long outlived it's real purpose. This lose the state by one vote crap and get nothing for it is just stupid. It is also another way to keep third party candidates out of the way.

I support the electoral college, but maybe we can make it so the electors can split their votes as Colorado is set to vote on.

	17-10-2004 03:56									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Removing the electoral college will reverse the campaign stops... small states will then be ignored, and the larger states getting more attention. In a way, it will increase the "cost of entry" to a candidate. Instead of being able to focus dollars in the cheaper swing states.. the big states would become more important, and are far more expensive to advertise in. Hmmmmm... that would make for more profits for advertising agencies and PR firms... Hmmmmm....

I'm against it because I'm from a small state. Our entire state would be a nuclear dumping ground

And if we didn't have the electoral college, democrats would win every single election.

	17-10-2004 03:56									#13
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quote: Why is that?

The framers of the Constitution found apportionment of power among states the toughest nut to crack and I have no doubt that it would be a very divisive issue nowadays as well. A measure of this difficulty in finding a compromise is that the system is rather elaborate in a document that is otherwise rather simple.

A split in the electoral college/popular vote hasn't happened that often and only happens when the popular vote is extremely close. Because of this, I see much higher risk of opening back up the issue versus accepting the status quo.

	17-10-2004 03:57									#14
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It would be a disaster to get rid of the EC. Without it, large population centers would have too much influence in the election, people living in rural areas would essentially have no vote. After all, why both campaigning in small towns in the midwest when NYC has several million voters?

We must keep the EC system so that every state has a fair role in the election and is not disenfranchised.

	17-10-2004 04:00									#15
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By the way, apportioning power among states is an unavoidable issue of a federal system. As the EU integrates further, I have no doubt that this will be the largest issue for them as well.

	17-10-2004 04:06									#16
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it already is flaring up in the EU I believe. Wasn't it not too long ago there was some disagreement over France and Germany having so much power (because of their larger population) than smaller nations? France and Germany were insisting they had a right to this because they made up a majority of the population.

	17-10-2004 04:07									#17
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Yes, they've had some skirmishing on the issue. I think they've successfully finessed the issue for now, but I don't think that can last for long.

	17-10-2004 04:22									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Not going to happen, but it would be EXTREMELY interesting to see how things would play out if the US implemented proportional representation and parliamentiarism.

It wouldn't be pretty.

	17-10-2004 04:24									#19
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat It would be a disaster to get rid of the EC. Without it, large population centers would have too much influence in the election, people living in rural areas would essentially have no vote. After all, why both campaigning in small towns in the midwest when NYC has several million voters?

@ getting rid of the power of the rural areas. They get too much government money as it is, ****ing leeches.

	17-10-2004 04:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by The diplomat It would be a disaster to get rid of the EC. Without it, large population centers would have too much influence in the election, people living in rural areas would essentially have no vote. After all, why both campaigning in small towns in the midwest when NYC has several million voters? @ getting rid of the power of the rural areas. They get too much government money as it is, ****ing leeches.

Grow your own food then.

	17-10-2004 04:28									#21
	Re: Eliminate the Electoral College Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley I say this because the candidates only campaign in swing states.

Without the EC, candidates will still ignore states, focusing on those with the high population.

	17-10-2004 04:30									#22
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The small states outnumber you. So it's staying.

	17-10-2004 04:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Grow your own food then.

There'll be plenty of food without idiotic farm subsidies.

	17-10-2004 04:33									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker There'll be plenty of food without idiotic farm subsidies.

I didn't say there wouldn't be.

Obligatory

	17-10-2004 04:39									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker It wouldn't be pretty.

Interesting nevertheless

just pulling these numbers out of my arse, but imagine:

30% Rep
30% Dem
10% Green
10% Socialist
10% Libertarian
5 % KKK
5% Misc nutjobs

	17-10-2004 04:40									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by The diplomat It would be a disaster to get rid of the EC. Without it, large population centers would have too much influence in the election, people living in rural areas would essentially have no vote. After all, why both campaigning in small towns in the midwest when NYC has several million voters? @ getting rid of the power of the rural areas. They get too much government money as it is, ****ing leeches.

such venom

	17-10-2004 04:41									#27
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It's just one way they deal with their inferiority complex.

	17-10-2004 04:45									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Verto It's just one way they deal with their inferiority complex.

Just because you get two votes for every vote a normal person gets, doesn't mean you are better.

	17-10-2004 04:45									#29
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by Verto It's just one way they deal with their inferiority complex. Just because you get two votes for every vote a normal person gets, doesn't mean you are better.

Is that how things work in Texas?

	17-10-2004 04:48									#30
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when people want to disband the electoral college, are they taking issue with the win-all rule or the fact that small states have 3 votes?