25-10-2004 17:54									#91
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It'd only be irony if the Sox were bragging about how it would never happen again. Interesting, yes. Ironic? Nah.

	25-10-2004 17:56									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It'd only be irony if the Sox were bragging about how it would never happen again. Interesting, yes. Ironic? Nah.

They are already talking sweep- and look at the gleew of calling the Yankees the worst team ever- it would be far from just "interesting", it would be a cosmic joke of unparralelled proportions (specially since choking in the WS beats chocking for a pennant).

	25-10-2004 17:59									#93
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quote: They are already talking sweep

Well I don't think they are. I think some fools on internet forums (*looks at LoA*) are. If LoA said it would never happen to them, then it'd be ironic wrt to him . You have to have that something extra for irony. It isn't just karma.

	25-10-2004 18:01									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: They are already talking sweep Well I don't think they are. I think some fools on internet forums (*looks at LoA*) are. If LoA said it would never happen to them, then it'd be ironic wrt to him . You have to have that something extra for irony. It isn't just karma.

You are just being pigheaded- of course it would be Ironic- form "greatest comeback of all times" to "greatest collapse of all times" is a LONG way to go.

	25-10-2004 18:03									#95
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quote: Originally posted by GePap They are already talking sweep- and look at the gleew of calling the Yankees the worst team ever- it would be far from just "interesting", it would be a cosmic joke of unparralelled proportions (specially since choking in the WS beats chocking for a pennant).

Not the worst team, just the biggest chokers.

Think about it - all winter long, you'll get to realize you were three outs away, and couldn't do it. That "great" Yankee bullpen, two games in extra innings, and you just couldn't do it. Two games in the Bronx tenement that Ruth built, and you just couldn't do it. In the last game, you flat out got your asses kicked.

"Who's your dad-dy"



Choke.

	25-10-2004 18:05									#96
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quote: Originally posted by GePap You are just being pigheaded- of course it would be Ironic- form "greatest comeback of all times" to "greatest collapse of all times" is a LONG way to go.

You are being quite defensive... probably because you don't understand what irony is .

By your interpretation, you'd have to say the Yankees losing after being up 3-0 with three outs to go was ironic because the Yankees aren't supposed to do that. They always pull games out. This time it was Boston who played the part of the Yanks. But that isn't ironic either.

	25-10-2004 18:07									#97
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****in' A. They couldn't have made a few of those errors in the ALCS, could they? Noooo-oh! If they had, the Yanks would have won.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

GePap - have a little objectivity. The '04 Yanks will go down as one of the biggest chokes in history (definitely #1 in Yankees history, quite possibly in sports history). 3-0 lead, back-to-back blown saves, embarrassing loss to a one-legged man, and game 7 drubbing. It really doesn't get much uglier than that.

It's karmic payback for '03, when I think Mystique and Aura were called upon one time too many, and finally said "ok, that's it, we're taking a break next year." After all, those girls need some rest every once and a while.

-Arrian

	25-10-2004 18:10									#98
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As from the American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Edition:

quote: Usage Note: The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply “coincidental” or “improbable,” in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of the Usage Panel rejects the use of ironically in the sentence In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York. Some Panelists noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us. By contrast, 73 percent accepted the sentence Ironically, even as the government was fulminating against American policy, American jeans and videocassettes were the hottest items in the stalls of the market, where the incongruity can be seen as an example of human inconsistency.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ironic

Irony has to rely on some human folly or vanity. If they lose in that way, it'll be ironic wrt LoA, for example. But not most Sox fans, because they are scared to death what fate has in store (they remember their history better ). As long as the Red Sox don't say we are going to sweep or what happened against the Yanks won't happen to us, it isn't ironic in general (wrt Red Sox Nation).

	25-10-2004 18:21									#99
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I don't dispute the Yankees choked badly- I do think Sox's fans are too cocky already by far-lets all remmeber that the Sox have also been 3 outs from a victory to blow it (game 6, 1986 anyone?)

	25-10-2004 18:26									#100
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The Sox fans I know aren't cocky at all. Happy, yes. Cocky, no. I think "waiting for disaster to strike" is more apt, actually.

-Arrian

	25-10-2004 18:40									#101
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I hope the Cards get swept. I want Scott Rolen to lose. He felt he was too good for Philly.

	25-10-2004 18:43									#102
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 I hope the Cards get swept. I want Scott Rolen to lose. He felt he was too good for Philly.

0-8 and 7 lob. Way to go, Scotty!

Nice to see Schilling doing well - now he is a class act.

	25-10-2004 18:47									#103
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quote: I do think Sox's fans are too cocky

LoA does NOT equal Sox fans .

	25-10-2004 18:48									#104
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 I hope the Cards get swept. I want Scott Rolen to lose. He felt he was too good for Philly.

More like Philly wanted to short shaft Rolen and not pay him like the best 3B in the game (which he is).

	25-10-2004 18:49									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Stuie 0-8 and 7 lob. Way to go, Scotty! Nice to see Schilling doing well - now he is a class act.

Schill lived and died with the Phils. It killed him that our ownership was so cheap and would not spend money on building the team.

He loves it here. He wanted to come back to us before this season. Rolen knew from day one he didnt want to be on an east coast team and was just waiting for free agency.

But even Rolen is better than JD Drew who refused to even put on a Phils uniform.

	25-10-2004 18:53									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui More like Philly wanted to short shaft Rolen and not pay him like the best 3B in the game (which he is).

Wrong! He had turned down a multiyear deal that would have guaranteed him $90 million at over $10 million per year.

	25-10-2004 19:00									#107
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Wrong! He had turned down a multiyear deal that would have guaranteed him $90 million at over $10 million per year.

And he's kinda making more with the Cards. After the Phils dealt Rolen, the Cards were willing to pay him a greater amount (I believe it is $11.5 Mil a year) than the Phils offered.

	25-10-2004 19:24									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And he's kinda making more with the Cards. After the Phils dealt Rolen, the Cards were willing to pay him a greater amount (I believe it is $11.5 Mil a year) than the Phils offered.

They offered him a 7-year contract for $90 million. The also offered him 3 options years...

	25-10-2004 19:43									#109
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 They offered him a 7-year contract for $90 million. The also offered him 3 options years...

Actually they didn't. Wade said he would offer that much money if Rolen sat down to negotiate. Doesn't mean he actually would have done so once they all sat down (he did recind promises to that effect in the past with players).

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/3003493.htm

quote: Technically, Rolen was not offered and did not turn down that contract. The Phillies would have been willing to pay him that much had he accepted their offer to negotiate. He declined. Still, some people see that amount of money and think Rolen was stupid, irresponsible or unappreciative for not jumping at it. Some critics, amazingly enough, have called him greedy. That shoe doesn't fit. Had Rolen been greedy, he would have taken the money and run. All this guy wants is a good chance to win year in and year out. Over his five years in a Phillies uniform, he has seen other teams spend nearly twice as much as his team to accomplish that. He'd like to have that same chance.

	25-10-2004 20:01									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Kalius Sox win, 6-2.

Ahhhh, thank you. I had out of town company show up last night and missed the end of the game.

	25-10-2004 21:30									#111
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i never said sox would sweep.

	25-10-2004 21:35									#112
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Of course the sox won't sweep. Indeed, we're probably going to have trouble adjusting to the NL pitcher as hitter situation. If we come out of St. Louis with one win, I'll be happy.

	25-10-2004 21:37									#113
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Nope, the last series scared you into some semblance of sanity.

You predicted a sweep in the ALCS, but were wise enough not to predict one here. I don't recall any prediction whatsoever, actually.

I did my best to root for the Red Sox this weekend (as stated earlier, for my friends & finacee who are Sox fans), but the best I could muster was detached neutrality.

-Arrian

	25-10-2004 22:55									#114
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One of the sutures was inadvertantly put through a nerve. Once it was removed, he started feeling much better. If he has to go in a game 6, he will probably be able to.

	25-10-2004 22:57									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia i never said sox would sweep.

It was the Yankees, same difference .

	26-10-2004 00:08									#116
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I don't dispute the Yankees choked badly- I do think Sox's fans are too cocky already by far-lets all remmeber that the Sox have also been 3 outs from a victory to blow it (game 6, 1986 anyone?)

I think they were actually only one out away with the bases empty. At least that's the way my father remembers it, as he likes to tell that story and I was only 5 years old at the time.

I'd say this game was a bigger single-game choke then any of the 2004 ALCS.

	26-10-2004 08:14									#117
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pedro v suppan, i cant see how you cant give pedro the edge here. suppan was the one time #5 starter for the sox (lost his job to kim for crying out loud) but his era is under 3 over the course of this postseason, and he beat clemens. i say sox use and abuse suppan over the first couple of innings.

	26-10-2004 10:41									#118
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1909344

kerry says that he was at game 6 in 86, and ran the boston marathon. does any sox fan not think that he is making all this stuff up? i mean the guy couldnt even throw it to the plate

	26-10-2004 20:09									#119
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But it's Pedro... he sucks in the postseason.

	27-10-2004 03:27									#120
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Ask Apoc about Suppan.

Oh wait, the Cards cheated to beat Clemens. Riiight