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Which is better for games - CRTs or LCDs? (Time out:0 days after 25-10-2004, 06:38)
CRTs - oldie but goodie
LCDs is the wave of the future
Eh? I don't see any difference?
Duh! I thought they were talking about LSD
Who cares as long it can make me some banana shake
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Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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Jan 2004
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 06:35
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quote:
A Flat Panel Doesn't Always Compute

By Mike Musgrove
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 24, 2004; Page F07

This was supposed to be the year that bulky cathode-ray tube monitors for desktop computers disappeared, replaced by the slick, svelte and affordable liquid-crystal displays that have been catching on among PC buyers.

But it turns out that CRTs aren't going away without a fight. This year, according to the research firm IDC, sales of LCD monitors did finally nudge past those of CRT displays, but the result was as close as some election-year polls: LCDs nabbed 50.2 percent of the market.

"The early predictions were that CRTs would get slaughtered this year, but that hasn't happened," said Bob O'Donnell, analyst at the firm.

O'Donnell blames bad pricing moves by the manufacturers of the flat-panel displays, which also go into laptop computers and some television sets. "Basically, the LCD guys got greedy and kicked their price up," he said. "But it turns out people are more price-sensitive than the monitor guys were willing to admit."

This may force budget-minded consumers this fall to settle for a hefty CRT instead of the stylish LCD they had in mind.

Prices were on the way down last year and electronics stores had a hard time keeping the displays in stock, but LCD prices surged north early this year, slowing sales momentum. And although LCD monitors are much cheaper than they were a few years ago, there's still a wide price gap between the two display types. For example, a 19-inch CRT display typically costs $250, while a similarly sized LCD runs about twice that price.

That price gap can shrink if you factor in operating expenses. Many industry analysts estimate that LCDs cost about the same as CRTs over time, thanks to their lower electrical consumption. But for many shoppers, sticker price still comes first.

"In terms of demand, I think everyone would like to own an LCD," said Rick Schwartz, senior product manager at Gateway. "But the trend right now is for really affordable PCs. You're not going to see a $499 PC with an LCD monitor."

And some figure that almost no price difference is too small. Tom Anderson, vice president of worldwide marketing for consumer PCs at Hewlett-Packard, remembers a few years ago when HP sold both 14- and 15-inch CRTs. The price difference between the two shrank and shrank -- but as long as there was a difference, many customers went for the slightly cheaper set with the smaller screen. "People bought that 14-inch for a long, long, long time," he said.

Rival computer giant Dell tells the same story; "There's always going to be a holdout," said Robert Thompson, product manager of displays at Dell, "but 99 percent of our customers want to buy flat panel, it's just that the price isn't there."

The remaining 1 percent of CRT loyalists seems to be mostly hardcore computer gamers. These users typically lead the market in their willingness to ante up for cutting-edge gear, but many of them still feel that CRT monitors remain the display of choice for playing computer games.

Whether that's true is a matter of dispute. While early LCDs did not always refresh picture elements quickly enough to deliver a crisp picture, many think that LCDs are nearly as good as CRT displays these days on this front.

But some don't. Craig Levine, manager of Team3D, a professional computer game-playing team sponsored by Nvidia and HP, figures that today's LCD screens can refresh each picture element about 80 times per second. But cutting-edge new video graphics cards can generate 125 such images per second -- meaning that the computer may be generating images faster than that LCD monitor can actually display them.

Can the human eye actually tell the difference? Maybe, maybe not -- but folks obsessive enough to make a living playing computer games aren't going to take any chances.

"LCDs are nice for my mom or my dad or your typical college kid," Levine said. "But my gaming machine, it's got a CRT and it's going to stay that way."


I have never played a game on LCD screen so I can't really comment on this. I'm sure some of you have played on a LCD monitor so I was wondering do you agree or disagree with this article about CRTs being better for games?

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 07:01 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I was going to make a similar thread in off-topic, but this is better

Actually I was going to ask what people have for their monitor. My brother has a LCD for his wife, and a laptop. Both screens look much, much sharper than CRT's. And they also look better than my CRT.

And I'm wondering if I should get an LCD. I probably won't until my CRT goes out, then I definately will. I don't play that many "fast" games, and the one's I do play, the graphical quality isn't the most important feature for me.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 07:02 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Barinthus


I have never played a game on LCD screen so I can't really comment on this. I'm sure some of you have played on a LCD monitor so I was wondering do you agree or disagree with this article about CRTs being better for games?


and I have played the game Battlefield: Vietnam on my brother's laptop (using a regular PC mouse which is cool). The game played damn well. It looked great to me.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 07:12
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Yes, CRTs are better. They have a better response time. You don't have those viewing angle problems you have with LCDs. You can also change the screen's resolution. LCD's have what they call a native resolution. If you want to change the screen resolution, the LCD uses different kind of tricks. But the image quality is at its best at the native resolution.

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
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Apr 2004
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 07:36
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Like nostromo said, CRT's actually have better picture. They use more mature technology after all.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
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Feb 2001
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Using an LCD now, had been on CRT before. Performance both are excellent (this is while running TBS & RTS- nothing full 3D yet) The smaller footprint of the monitor is a huge plus though, frees up lots of desk space for other goodies.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
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Aug 2005
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:08
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Put an end to popups!

CRTs seem to be better for higher resolutions. Otherwise it doesn't matter or the edge goes to LCDs.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:28
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IME, even if a CRT in theory has better resolution, the image quality is better on an LCD because there's no glass (and much, much better than non-flatscreen CRT's).

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:35
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For gaming, a CRT is better?

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:39
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Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Nuclear Master
For gaming, a CRT is better?


Yes, they have a better response time. Of course, if you play Civ, response time is pointless...

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:40
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No way.

The directional issues on LCD's aren't really a big deal, since you're not ever going to be looking at the screen from an angle like that anyway. Also, LCD's are easier to reposition and, as I said, they have practically better graphics due to the lack of glass.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:41
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But for 3-D games, like World of Warcraft, CRTs are the way to go, correct?

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:53
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In a lot of LCD reviews, you often read that the image quality of the LCD panel reviewed is almost as good as a CRT.

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 08:56
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Any game that is not in the native resolution of the LCD will look better on a CRT.

LCDs can suffer from ghosting as well.

Once they can match price and performance, I switch in a heartbeat, but my 21" CRT is going nowhere right now.

Dis is offline Dis
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quote:
Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy
Any game that is not in the native resolution of the LCD will look better on a CRT.

LCDs can suffer from ghosting as well.

Once they can match price and performance, I switch in a heartbeat, but my 21" CRT is going nowhere right now.


how big is that thing!

my 19 inch takes up so much space. And very damn heavy.

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 12:56
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Nuke Master, my impressions from the article is that with newer LCDs, it'd depend on your video card. If you have the top cutting edge card, you are probably wasting its performance capabilities on a LCD but if you have 'average' card, either CRT or LCD will do just fine.

I'd love to have a LCD but sorry, pricing is wrong for me right now. I'm content to wait for prices to drop, I'm not in any hurry.

Adagio is offline Adagio

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  Old Post 25-10-2004 15:16
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I've had an LG 19" TFT (or LCD if you want) for a few weeks now, and I'm defently happy about buying it. The image is much sharper than CRT, and I have yet to see some ghosting. Ok, I haven't played that much 3D games, but I did play a little Doom 3 to test the monitor.
And viewing angle is defently not a problem with my monitor. Last night I turned my monitor into an angle where my eyes could just barely see the screen, but what I saw of the screen was in almost perfect color... and here I'm talking about an angle as close to 180 as possible

But the best thing about the TFT monitor is that it's anti-reflective. Before I bought it, my old CRT monitor always had reflections of the windows (real life windows ) just behind my back, and sometimes the light I have just next to the monitor would also reflect in the screen... but no more. Even if I look closely I can't see any reflections... that is only if I have a light pointing directly to the screen, and being very close to it, I can see the reflection, but still only just slightly (Still possible to see exactly what's going on)

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 15:44
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Got spare money?

At work i've got access to both.

From my experience i'd say that if you use your pc for general internet/text viewing stuff then i prefer to use a flat screen(TFT), which is what i got on this pc. I just find it easier on the eyes.

For gameing, i prefer a good CRT, and one of my friends who does 3d graphic work(using things like 3Dmax etc) and maybe Photoshop he prefers a CRT as well.

For the price of an average TFT you can get a pretty decent CRT.

alva is offline alva
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 15:45
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my CRT ( 19"inch) will be here to stay until it finally breaks down as I see no apparent reason to get rid of it.
Sure, it's a big beast, but at the moment I have plenty of desk space.

When I buy a new one, it will be a flat one though, hopefully that will be while my current one is still working so I can have a dual monitor set-up.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 17:57
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quote:
Originally posted by nostromo


Yes, they have a better response time. Of course, if you play Civ, response time is pointless...


And you can pick different resolutions for different games.....

CRT LCD's are for women!

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 18:16
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident


how big is that thing!

my 19 inch takes up so much space. And very damn heavy.


Imagine the biggest freaking monitor that you've ever seen before. It is a Nokia 445X pro ($999.00 new).

This 21" (20.0" viewable) monitor features a 0.26mm dot pitch. As the flagship model series in Nokia's lineup, the monitor has a superb maximum resolution of 1800x1440 @80Hz refresh! A version with integrated USB hub is also available.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 18:25
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Get a bigger avatar today!

I've got an 21' IIyama, heavy as f$%k, but only 80 quid off EBay

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 18:44
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I did not buy it new, got it for $75 local, mint condition.

Shogun Gunner is offline Shogun Gunner

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I have been looking at this choice for some time now. I have a 17" Dell CRT that I bought in 1996 -- refurbished for $500. Every year that passes, I expect this monitor to die. It just won't die!!!! I have moved several times inthe last nine years of owning this monitor, and it still works great. On principle, I won't get rid of this monitor until it dies.

That being said... a few questions.

1. Dead pixels: How often is this a problem? It would seem that this is a deal breaker if the screen is tarnished by any imperfections.

2. Refresh rate: How do I choose the right video card/TFT combination? Can I trust what Dell offers?

3. Sunlight and glare: My office is very bright. Sometimes it is very difficult to see the images during the day. At night, the LCD image is great. Is there less or no sunlight glare on these LCDs?

Price is a big factor for me. I want a 19" or 21" monitor, but not at current TFT/LCD prices.

Adagio is offline Adagio

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  Old Post 25-10-2004 22:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
1. Dead pixels: How often is this a problem? It would seem that this is a deal breaker if the screen is tarnished by any imperfections.


I've had two TFT monitors, but none of them had dead pixels... the first one was returned for a failure of power supply (and for several reasons I got the cash instead of a replacement)

quote:
Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
2. Refresh rate: How do I choose the right video card/TFT combination?


As far as I know there's no problems here, no matter what combination you choose, unless of course you choose a video card that doesn't support the resolution the monitor requires...

quote:
Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Can I trust what Dell offers?


With my experience with Dell (school computers): No

quote:
Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
3. Sunlight and glare: My office is very bright. Sometimes it is very difficult to see the images during the day. At night, the LCD image is great. Is there less or no sunlight glare on these LCDs?


As posted earlier: In my TFT monitor there's almost no sunlight glare (or any reflection of any type)

quote:
Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Price is a big factor for me. I want a 19" or 21" monitor, but not at current TFT/LCD prices.


Most people say a 17" CRT is the same as a 15" TFT
If it's true or not I'm not sure, since I went from a 17" CRT to a 19" TFT

Shogun Gunner is offline Shogun Gunner

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Very comprehensive answers! Thanks ADG. I'm going to keep my eye on the prices and wait for an anticipated price drop. Maybe this holiday season will show some price competition.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 23:31
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CRT's are superior. I have both a 19 inch CRT and 17 inch LCD. BY FAR, the CRT is superior.

CRT's are/have:

better image quality
cheaper (especially for larger sizes)
better refresh rates

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
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  Old Post 25-10-2004 23:34
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CRTs, most definitely!

Adagio is offline Adagio

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  Old Post 26-10-2004 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
better image quality




Unless you're talking about some ancient TFT, TFT monitors has defently a much better image quality, and should be even better with DVI (My monitor has it, but I've not tested it yet)

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
cheaper (especially for larger sizes)


That's the only drawback so far

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
better refresh rates


Only if you look at the numbers... most people say you can't compare refresh rates between CRT and TFT. IIRC they say that 50 MHz (or is it HZ..? I never remember) on a TFT monitor is about the same as 80 on CRT, or something like that...
...and I've heard from several people who can easily tell if a CRT monitor runs on 60, while they see no difference (in refresh rate) on TFT's running 50 compared to CRT running much higher

I don't know how true this is, since I'm used to a refresh rate of 60 (on my old monitor)

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 26-10-2004 00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Adagio


Unless you're talking about some ancient TFT, TFT monitors has defently a much better image quality, and should be even better with DVI (My monitor has it, but I've not tested it yet)
image quality is somewhat subjective, but CRT's have better dot pitch ratings... which is a key factor in image quality.
quote:

That's the only drawback so far
which is a pretty big drawback... considering I can get a top of the line 21 inch CRT less than a 17 inch LCD
quote:

Only if you look at the numbers... most people say you can't compare refresh rates between CRT and TFT. IIRC they say that 50 MHz (or is it HZ..? I never remember) on a TFT monitor is about the same as 80 on CRT, or something like that...
...and I've heard from several people who can easily tell if a CRT monitor runs on 60, while they see no difference (in refresh rate) on TFT's running 50 compared to CRT running much higher

I don't know how true this is, since I'm used to a refresh rate of 60 (on my old monitor)
the refresh rates are generally better on CRT's... my ViewSonic E90fb refreshes at 75HZ at 1600x1200x32bit... my LCD is only 50Hz at 1024x768 (it's a Dell LCD).

That's fine if you prefer an LCD. This is all just a matter of opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours.

 
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