26-10-2004 20:07									#1
	"Why I voted for Bush" Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I went and voted early yesterday and submitted my ballot for Bush. I had considered voting for Badnarik, but couldn't bring myself to do it when the time came.

This whole election has been one of great turmoil for me. Several of my good friends are Democrats or leaning toward Kerry, including my wife. Nothing new. One very good friend said to me, "I find it bizarre that someone I like and respect so much as you, would vote for Bush." He's right. It is bizarre.

I completely support the majority of the Democrat's agenda; however, I do not necessarily support the methods for obtaining it. The idea that Republicans are against caring for people insults me. It's just not true.

I'm a rabid nationalist, but I completely support the forum of world opinion. However, I do not support forfeiting American economic & military power to appease the world. Why would I? To do so, I would have to believe others in the world would "play fair." Obviously, that is not true.

My decision came down to one of who makes me feel best about America. Between the two major candidates, it's Bush. Kerry does not.

This is hardwired, nothing Kerry can say could sway me.

Now, anyone of you can easily flame me and offer, ad naseum, comments on "this and that." And, I can easily reply with such comments.

	26-10-2004 20:09									#2
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Why bother posting and saying people can comment if you've admitted that NOTHING can sway your opinion?

As such I won't even go into your numerous misunderstandings about the world and Kerry.

-Drachasor

	26-10-2004 20:10									#3
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What state are you in dojo?

	26-10-2004 20:14									#4
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Hopefully, not a swing state.

	26-10-2004 20:15									#5
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quote: I'm a rabid nationalist

Rabid goes without saying

	26-10-2004 20:16									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Drachasor Why bother posting and saying people can comment if you've admitted that NOTHING can sway your opinion? As such I won't even go into your numerous misunderstandings about the world and Kerry. -Drachasor

Pot meet kettle.

	26-10-2004 20:18									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Rabid goes without saying

There is nothing wrong with being a Nationalist. I realize that the modern European leftist wants to try to pretend nationalism is bad but that is just because they're trying to push the EU on people and love for one's country gets in the way of that.

	26-10-2004 20:19									#8
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I still can't understand why someone would vote for Bush... but ok .

	26-10-2004 20:20									#9
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Woooh!

	26-10-2004 20:21									#10
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Bush == Professional marketing campaign and slick Hollywood-made sets

Voting based on how you feel about Bush is like buying detergent based on how you feel about Tide.

	26-10-2004 20:21									#11
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quote: There is nothing wrong with being a Nationalist

quote: I realize that the modern European leftist wants to try to pretend nationalism is bad but that is just because they're trying to push the EU on people and love for one's country gets in the way of that.

I'm as anti-EU on the rest of them. I just happen to think that nationalism and patriotism are the signs of a pathological and absurd form of idiocy and intellectual stupidity .

	26-10-2004 20:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Pot meet kettle.

My opinion can and does change on issues.

As far as Bush goes, I merely don't expect to ever see anything that will change it (it would take quite a lot at this point). That doesn't mean it can't change though, only that it probably won't.

-Drachasor

	26-10-2004 20:23									#13
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And what's wrong with the EU?

-Drachasor

	26-10-2004 20:24									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy I'm as anti-EU on the rest of them. I just happen to think that nationalism and patriotism are the signs of a pathological and absurd form of idiocy and intellectual stupidity .

Then please take a Political Science class and learn the difference between facism and nationalism. Once you have become educated we can talk again.

	26-10-2004 20:26									#15
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Its a nationalistic organization designed to thwart US nationalism.

	26-10-2004 20:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Then please take a Political Science class and learn the difference between facism and nationalism. Once you have become educated we can talk again.

Nationalism == World War One
Fascism == World War Two

	26-10-2004 20:27									#17
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Good, now I know who to blame when the **** really hits the fan under a second Bush presidency

	26-10-2004 20:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Drachasor And what's wrong with the EU? -Drachasor

Nothing as long as it isn't forced down peoples throats and they are freely given a choice. I do have major issues with the way the EU seems to be run through back room deals by unelected elites who think it is disdainful to give common citizens a say.

You see those little people might not vote the way the elites want them to so the elites much prefer the commoners not have the right to vote on anything important.

	26-10-2004 20:28									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin There is nothing wrong with being a Nationalist. I realize that the modern European leftist wants to try to pretend nationalism is bad but that is just because they're trying to push the EU on people and love for one's country gets in the way of that.

I'm pro-EU because I love my country.

	26-10-2004 20:29									#20
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quote: Then please take a Political Science class and learn the difference between facism and nationalism. Once you have become educated we can talk again.

St Leo... also Fascism = applied nationalism. You live in the US... surely the elements of fascism are painfully obvious to you?

quote: And what's wrong with the EU?

The CAP. Half of the EU's budget goes on subsidising European farmers to produce a more expensive crop at the taxpayers expense, a few thousand individuals are being maintained by governments while the third world starves... and yet it has the capacity to produce more food and a cheaper price. Only because the farmers have a loud political voice... they can pull at nationalistic and traditionalist heartstrings .

	26-10-2004 20:29									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Then please take a Political Science class and learn the difference between facism and nationalism. Once you have become educated we can talk again.

By definition fascism is the exaltation of nationalism... And I do actually study in political science

	26-10-2004 20:30									#22
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quote: You see those little people might not vote the way the elites want them to so the elites much prefer the commoners not have the right to vote on anything important.

That's what I like about the EU. Why should the people be given a say? The logic is pathetic. I'd rather a country is run by intellectuals who know what they're doing, who've studied, history, law, psychological, sociology, economics, philosophy and the rest of it, rather than the consensus of millions of lay people who only know of their own self-interest.

	26-10-2004 20:31									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy St Leo... also Fascism = applied nationalism. You live in the US... surely the elements of fascism are painfully obvious to you?

The US? Pah! Why would I want to live in the 11th Province? The other 10 provinces and 3 territories suit me just fine.

	26-10-2004 20:33									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Nothing as long as it isn't forced down peoples throats and they are freely given a choice. I do have major issues with the way the EU seems to be run through back room deals by unelected elites who think it is disdainful to give common citizens a say. You see those little people might not vote the way the elites want them to so the elites much prefer the commoners not have the right to vote on anything important.

Are you sure that you are describing the EU and not the US?

Actually I think it's a totally valid criticism but I don't think that it doesn't apply to the US. Look at all the unelected presidential 'advisors' or the massive amounts of money given by lobbiests, corporations etc.

Actually I think that you could say that it applies to just about every political system in history...

Nothing wrong with being nationalist/patriotic. Everything wrong with assuming that means that you can't criticise or allow to be criticised anything about your country.

	26-10-2004 20:33									#25
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St Leo: Trouble in the colonies eh?

	26-10-2004 20:36									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Nothing wrong with being nationalist/patriotic.

quote: Originally posted by Herman Goering "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

	26-10-2004 20:40									#27
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Wow, leave for lunch and look what happened.

quote: Originally posted by Drachasor Why bother posting and saying people can comment if you've admitted that NOTHING can sway your opinion?

Nothing Kerry could say, could sway me. I'm interested in the comments from you guys. The vote has been cast.

I'm not in a swing state. Tennessee.

I posted this to express it, to get it out of my system.

	26-10-2004 20:43									#28
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quote: Originally posted by FrosT37 By definition fascism is the exaltation of nationalism... And I do actually study in political science

Survey says... BUZZ!!!!!! Thank you for play but you get some nice consolation prizes.

Fascism most certainly does appeal to nationalist instincts with in the population; however, fascism also has a distinct economic and political system. The fascist believes that the entire economy must be organized in such a way as to benefit the state. Thus free enterprise is only accepted when it cooperates to achieve the goals set by the fascist government.

Nationalists all love their country to a greater or lesser degree and they want their country to do well, but, nationalism is considered an immature political philosophy because it does not develop further then that. Unlike say socialism, communism, or fascism there is not an over riding plan for how society should be ordered. That means nationalism can be attached to most other political and/or economic philosphies without ill effect.

	26-10-2004 20:43									#29
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Other titles that could have worked for this thread:


"Why I voted for four more years of lies, deception, and corruption"

"Why I did something stupid"

"Why I made a bad mistake"

"Why I voted for four more years of incompetence and double talk"

	26-10-2004 20:43									#30
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Oerdin this reminds me of a thread you started over a year ago strawmanning me (my argument was similar to Mills in my sig).... went on for about 6 pages until I was able to come online, I posted and you never returned .