08-12-2004 06:28									#241
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oh, I did overlook that. I thought we were suggesting wizard builds for a PW... hmmm...

Oh yeah, if you're playing in a SP campaign where you won't reach the 17th level or higher, go straight Wizard to get the highest level spells you can. Not sorc. Not multiclass.

-Jam

	08-12-2004 10:24									#242
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Snotty Im game for it. Im not used to epic levels so would probably play a front line fighter/barbarian type. Organizing a time and a date will be fun Im sure. I cant really play on sunday afternoon/evening (gmt) but will try to be flexible the rest of the time. sounds like a laugh

it it is on a thursday or friday I can play

	08-12-2004 10:45									#243
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I haven't decided when we'll start, other than it'll have to be after December 15. Why? That's when finals end here.

So here's the list so far:

Vlad-- Rogue/fighter/WM
Jamski-- Rogue/wizard
Snotty-- Barbarian/fighter
Dissident-- No build posted.

Still needed: Cleric-type build for rezzing; another melee-oriented build (preferably paladin- or ranger-based); and possibly another arcane caster.

It'd be nice if everyone could at least do an outline of their build. Nothing major, just what I did for mine.

Also: You can come in with a level-1 character if you wish, apparently. There's a n00b-level-up-and-merchant at the start. (I took a brief--no more than 10 minutes--look at the module last night.)

	08-12-2004 12:44									#244
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

alright, i will post my build once I have built it

	08-12-2004 13:47									#245
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Vlad, I might be interested. If so, straight cleric. After the 15th is good for me too.

	08-12-2004 14:35									#246
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Oh yeah, if you're playing in a SP campaign where you won't reach the 17th level or higher, go straight Wizard to get the highest level spells you can. Not sorc. Not multiclass.

Yes, and with that in mind the "SpellSword" build makes a lot of sense. You don't have to blow your nukes on lowly goblins or orcs, you can deal with them with your melee abilities. The bosses on the other hand, will feel the wrath of a full-classed wizard. And it is easy to achieve, too, because many of the caster feats like extend, empower or maximize spell aren't that critical in the earlier stages. You can get them later, when they become more important, and invest your earlier feats into melee abilities like exotic weapon, two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity. A good developed dual weapon is the best for this build, because it gives you an (albeit nerfed) second attack right away, as your BAB is growing slow.

	08-12-2004 17:21									#247
	Put an end to popups!

On a sidenote: I know multiclassing is fun. I enjoyed it myself... for a while. But in my opinion, the prestige classes, that came with SoU and HotU, ruin the fun, at least mine. I know it's a fantasy world, but there is good fantasy and simple non-realism. For instance, what in bleeding hell is a Red Dragon Disciple and why does it have wings? Also, many multiclasses also don't make sense roleplay-wise whatsoever. And it is a RPG, after all. For instance, if you combine a rogue and a wizard, it already becomes hard, although skill-wise it's an awesome combination, I know. Is it an evil wizard? Or a mystical rogue? Or what? Now, if you add another prestige class, like Arcane Archer (which makes sense skill-wise, if you developed a "gunship" rogue), it becomes a completely insane roleplay. Or even worse, a Weapon Master.

Enough rant for now. But a while ago I started another slow going run through SoU/HotU, this time with a pure cleric. She is level 24 or 25 now and her epic abilities aren't really that good, but still I don't multiclass her, just because. And I enjoy this character tremendously. She can melee, she can buff, she can cast and she can heal. And I built up all three major saves reasonably well, so she's good at resisting everything, too.

	08-12-2004 19:20									#248
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I can see how a roleplayer could approach it from that angle. For me though it's a game in itself seeing how to multiclass to get something for nothing, or get something worth more than you give up. If you approach from an angle of building the best possible character you have to accept that 95% of good single/dual class builds can be improved by a skillful multiclass.

	08-12-2004 19:47									#249
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

True, it's just my feeling, that the original about dozen of classes are archetypes enough to tinker with. All what the presige classes do is adding partially imbalancing and partially just overly unrealistic stuff. This is also visible in the feats and skills for levels over 20, they feel like forcably propped over a once pretty well thought and balanced system. With other words, all they do is to promote power gaming. They add next to nothing to the game content itself.

	08-12-2004 23:45									#250
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I do have to admit that playing pure Rogue is awesome. The abilities of the Epic Rogue cannot be duplicated by other classes. My Rogue 40 build that is one of my current Folderol PCs (only level 27 or something at the moment) is great fun to play. By not multiclassing I've picked up a bonus feat at 10, 13, 16, 19, 24, 28, 32, 36 and 40. That's 9 feats, many of which are Rogue specific like Crippling Strike, Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind, Epic Dodge, and Self Concealment. I can max out all the skills (Rogues get INSANE skill points per level) like Parry and Tumble and so on, and I'm getting ridiculous sneak damage.

But as always, Rogues are helpless vs the Undead

-Jam

	09-12-2004 00:32									#251
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't want to rant against multiclassing, don't get me wrong. My point is just, that I lost the fun with it with the rise of the prestige classes. Tinkering and mixing with the orignial classes is enough of choice.

By the way, rogues indeed are fun, and awesome to RP. Just like rangers.

	09-12-2004 00:52									#252
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have to admit never having yet made a Ranger. I think I shall go and do that now. I was always a bit disappointed that a Fighter/Druid was better in every possible way

-Jam

	09-12-2004 01:30									#253
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Eh, not necessarily. A pure ranger, played all the way to level 40, would get an assload of ranger bonus feats-- at 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, and 38 (for being an epic ranger) and at 25, 30, 35 again, and 40 (when he could normally select another favored enemy). That's ten bonus feats, as many as an epic fighter (which, IIRC, gets 10 epic bonus feats, one every other level). Also, maxed out, a ranger gets +2d6+9 to damage against ALL his favored enemies (plus +9 to Taunt, which is always nice, and +9 to Listen/Spot, but who cares about those skills? ). If you choose favored enemies with every bonus feat (and you can do that and still get Devastating Critical), that's 15 types of enemies. And keep in mind that not all rangers HAVE to be dex-based, or even dual-wielders (see: son of Arathorn, Aragorn); it's possible to have a ranger that wears medium armor and wields a greatsword. (In fact, one of my characters on Folderol is just that.)

As for multiclassing Rangers... a Ranger 35/Fighter 5 is obvious (just make sure to take the fifth fighter level at 27, or any epic level divisible by 3, so you can get Epic Weapon Spec), trading off +1 to damage and taunt against all your favored enemies (plus one or two extra favored enemies) for +6 damage to ALL enemies, plus two extra combat feats and Heavy Armor Proficiency. (Though I do admit that I wouldn't put a Ranger in heavy armor, ever. )

FWIW, there's a FAQ on GameFAQs on various Ranger builds. That's where I got the idea that Rangers don't all have to be dex-based dual-wielders from.

	09-12-2004 04:51									#254
	Got spare money?

Hold on... 15 types of favoured enemy?

1. Animals
2. Undead
3. Goblinoids
4. Giants
5. Dragons
6. Planar
7. Beasts
8. Abberations
9. Vermin
10. Humans
11. Elves
12. Dwarves
13. Reptilians
14. Monstrous
15. Constructs

Bloody hell. That's about everything except halflings.

-Jam

	09-12-2004 05:43									#255
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov I haven't decided when we'll start, other than it'll have to be after December 15. Why? That's when finals end here. So here's the list so far: Vlad-- Rogue/fighter/WM Jamski-- Rogue/wizard Snotty-- Barbarian/fighter Dissident-- No build posted. Still needed: Cleric-type build for rezzing; another melee-oriented build (preferably paladin- or ranger-based); and possibly another arcane caster. It'd be nice if everyone could at least do an outline of their build. Nothing major, just what I did for mine. Also: You can come in with a level-1 character if you wish, apparently. There's a n00b-level-up-and-merchant at the start. (I took a brief--no more than 10 minutes--look at the module last night.)

If I can play, I could play a bard. (since another expressed interest in a cleric) I love clerics as well. But I have played them extensively.

	09-12-2004 22:16									#256
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

OK then. Current party:

Vlad-- Rogue/fighter/WM
Jamski-- Rogue/wizard
Snotty-- Barbarian/fighter
Dissident-- Bard
DaShi-- Cleric (straight up)

Room for 1 more victim adventurer.

	09-12-2004 22:17									#257
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We better start planning dates/times then.

-Jam

	09-12-2004 22:25									#258
	Inflate your Upload Space

I've been toying around with the idea of a Monk but I'm not sure what sort of a build I'd make (25 levels is a lot of decisions for a noob! Eep).

	09-12-2004 22:38									#259
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I might be interested in joining you all.


EDIT: Just fill me in on what's going on and I'll tell you what and when I'd be to play as.

	09-12-2004 23:00									#260
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm still working on my bard build. It will be similar to one I used to play the shadowguard premium module. I orginally designed her to be an arcane archer. So this build will have arcane archer mixed with it.

	09-12-2004 23:21									#261
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I might be interested in joining you all. EDIT: Just fill me in on what's going on and I'll tell you what and when I'd be to play as.

Basically, we'll be playing the Tomb of Horrors module for NWN. The Tomb of Horrors was one of the more insane/legendary modules for pencil-and-paper D&D; this is a conversion of it. (How faithful, I dunno.) The module recommends a multiplayer party of 2-6 chars, levels 22-30. At present, we've got five people signed up, with room for one more.

As for dates/times: I'd like to start on the 16th or 17th. Time doesn't particularly matter, so long as it isn't early AM GMT-5.

	09-12-2004 23:33									#262
	Inflate your Upload Space

Regular updates please - for those of us not fortunate enough to have broadband and be able to join in!
And I want some characterisation in these reports - not just a list of who reached which levels when and which bosses you have killed. I want to know who is arguing with whom and especially want to know about failed attempts at stealing stuff.

	09-12-2004 23:38									#263
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Anything else I should know about the module?

I pressume that roleplay is not expected?


You cna probably count on me playing... althouhg it's hard to say untill a real time is set. But I'm pretty open. I'll probably want to play as a straight monk... or possibly a multiclassed monk. I'll play around with some builds and decide later.

	10-12-2004 00:45									#264
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Regular updates please - for those of us not fortunate enough to have broadband and be able to join in!

You could easily change that.

	10-12-2004 01:40									#265
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Which module are you using, exactly? I looked it up on NWNvault and there was a few, but the most likely one recomends the characters to be level 15-20 for a six player game.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found another one which is probably the one you are looking at.


And do we know anything about starting equipment/item availability, or will we just have to be surprised?

	10-12-2004 02:56									#266
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: And do we know anything about starting equipment/item availability, or will we just have to be surprised?

I was going to bring a full pack. The original module was a legendary PC slayer. Best to be prepared, eh?

I'm going to go into the toolset and make a tiny "cupboard" module - a 1x1 room containing a cupboard that is full of custom gear appropriate for a level 24 character, and pre-styled to look übercool

-Jam

	10-12-2004 05:08									#267
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Anything else I should know about the module? I pressume that roleplay is not expected? You cna probably count on me playing... althouhg it's hard to say untill a real time is set. But I'm pretty open. I'll probably want to play as a straight monk... or possibly a multiclassed monk. I'll play around with some builds and decide later.

if I play, I'll probably be role playing.

Why else would I play a bard?

	10-12-2004 13:34									#268
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think roleplay-lite is as far as I need to go, although I wouldnt expect anyone else too

	10-12-2004 18:48									#269
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Jamski quote: And do we know anything about starting equipment/item availability, or will we just have to be surprised? I was going to bring a full pack. The original module was a legendary PC slayer. Best to be prepared, eh? -Jam

Just in case

quote: From Module page: High Search/Spot skills are ESSENTIAL, as is thorough investigation of areas, and placeables. Tricks and Traps: Heavy Roleplaying: Medium Hack/Slash: Medium A balanced party is HIGHLY recommended

	10-12-2004 20:02									#270
	Put an end to popups!

Re-checked the module. The n00b merchant has equipment up through +5 stuff, plus there are a couple of merchants in the next area that sell stronger-than-+5 stuff.