03-11-2004 19:15									#1
	Roman strategy thread Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What should we do first?

Attack Carthage?

Attack the Celts?

Attack the Greeks?

Who should be our friends?

After we decide who we are going to devour, how will we get the AI Civs to help?

What wonders should we try to build early and where?

Should we launch the GA right away or build some more cities first with our citizens at the start of the game?

Where should those cities go whether we trigger a GA early or not? Or should some of the citizens be added to towns already in existance to help wonder builds. If we are going to chase wonders early?

What do you think?

Start posting

~Conius Banana Ceasar~

	03-11-2004 19:59									#2
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I only played this scenario twice, at Emperor level. Did 30 or so turns, once as Rome and once as Carthage. Also, I didn't play Civ3 at Demigod level yet. Please keep that in mind when reading the rest of this post.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Attack Carthage?

I guess we should at least take Sicily. We have Legions that can be moved there on Galleys, if that will be the decision of the Senators.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Attack the Celts?

Definately yes. The sooner the better, as the Celts will be settling on some of the finest real estate available to us.

This involves a decision whether we want to go hard after the Celts or Carthage right from the start. We have some legions at the ready. Obviously they are not there for MP duty.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Attack the Greeks?

I'd rather not. The Hoplites are too good against early Legions. And if we would attack Greece, the Persians would certainly finish them off fast and become even more of an early superpower. They can field impressive numbers of Immortals.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Who should be our friends?

For now? Everyone except Carthage and the Celts. Not more than two targets at a time.
For later? Well, time will tell, I guess.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 After we decide who we are going to devour, how will we get the AI Civs to help?

Easiest way would be to offer them tech. But I don't know how bad that can turn out at Demigod level.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 What wonders should we try to build early and where?

Temple of Artemis comes to mind. If we start the GA soon, we just might have a shot. And with an expanding empire those free Temples would be really great to have. I'd say either in Rome or in Neapolis. If it doesn't happen, we can still go for some other good stuff, like Hadrian's Wall or the Great Library.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Should we launch the GA right away or build some more cities first with our citizens at the start of the game?

Launch it and use it to get basic infrastructure and lots of Legions and a decent tech pace. With Legions II we can take out the Celts and Goths wit ease.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Where should those cities go whether we trigger a GA early or not? Or should some of the citizens be added to towns already in existance to help wonder builds. If we are going to chase wonders early?

Two cities can be placed during the very first turn, so Id' say we do just that. There is space close to Padua for both of the Citizens around there. The two in Rome and Neapolis can be sent to various places, or added to cities. I don't know how critical that would be to wonder building.

And technology. I suppose we should get those second level Legions ASAP, right? So I suggest we research Tactics first.

	03-11-2004 20:00									#3
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looks like a great game ahead

	03-11-2004 20:32									#4
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I say we hit Carthage early and Hard. Get the Celts to jump in the fray, and then after our 20 turn alliance is up we stomp the Celts.

Keep the Greeks happy and on our side to cover our backs.

I like temple of Artemis and Hadrians wall. For wonders. Do prebuilds early somewhere is we have to. (Rome, Neapolis and Padua are likely sites.)

Go for tactics and then Republic (or is it Imperialism?) for the Legoinaire III's. Dont use the army until its a Legionaire III army.

	03-11-2004 20:44									#5
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I say we hit Carthage early and Hard. Get the Celts to jump in the fray, and then after our 20 turn alliance is up we stomp the Celts.

I like the way you think. I am, however, worried that they could develop Iron Working during that time. And Carthage, except on Sicily, is a tough nut to crack, methinks.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I like temple of Artemis and Hadrians wall. For wonders. Do prebuilds early somewhere is we have to. (Rome, Neapolis and Padua are likely sites.)

Padua? I'd rather have it churn out a couple Workers and Citizens first. The food is plentiful there and the Granary ready to work.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Go for tactics and then Republic (or is it Imperialism?) for the Legoinaire III's. Dont use the army until its a Legionaire III army.

Now, now. The early army can easily crush the Celts. I mean really easy. And with the Heroic Epic built, we will have plenty new armies to fill very soon. To get those Legions III, we need Tactics, Monarchy, Military Training and Republic. That's four techs to research, so time will pass and enemies will grow...

Imperialism comes after Republic and requires another branch of technologies. It is the best government form we can have, but gives no other benefits. It's in the distant future now.

	03-11-2004 23:41									#6
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The way to go I always find is a short limited campaign against Carthage to capture sicily, then turn everything you can spare to crush the Celts before they get too big and gallic swords. Set research to republic and research as fast as possible for the legionary 3's.

The Great library is a must build because once you have the republic the AI will research everything else for you and you can forget about it for the rest of the game, which means lots and lots of lovely gold to spemd on troop rushing.

libraries are not worth bothering with but temples are very important, now then its easy to build temples so Id say Artemis is not that important but the Oracle is well worth the shields as it makes your temples more powerful.

The other worthwhile wonder is Hadrians, but but not as important as Great library and Oracle.

carthage usually has a good navy so they will try to take Sicily back, this can be prevented by plenty of workers and or garrisons on all coastal squares

It is advisable to steer clear of their navy though as our galleys will be short work for theirs.

	04-11-2004 00:01									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus The way to go I always find is a short limited campaign against Carthage to capture sicily, then turn everything you can spare to crush the Celts before they get too big and gallic swords.

I figured something like that about the campaign planning, but played too short to see the Celts completely eradicated.

quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus The Great library is a must build because once you have the republic the AI will research everything else for you and you can forget about it for the rest of the game, which means lots and lots of lovely gold to spemd on troop rushing.

I really like the way you think.

quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus libraries are not worth bothering with but temples are very important, now then its easy to build temples so Id say Artemis is not that important but the Oracle is well worth the shields as it makes your temples more powerful.

But would it not be better to get ToA and not build Temples at all? That's a Legion per Temple (per city). And with GA going right from the start, you'd only need to beef up the lux slider for about 20 turns, possibly less. [edit]Plus, it gives free Temples in conquered cities, which will be especially valuable when the empire grows, increasing corruption. [/edit]

quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus carthage usually has a good navy so they will try to take Sicily back, this can be prevented by plenty of workers and or garrisons on all coastal squares

Yeah. Too bad it's too close so we can't kill the Galleys before they unload. Would make a good position for somebody playing our Admiral, or whatever they were called back then.

quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus It is advisable to steer clear of their navy though as our galleys will be short work for theirs.

I found it to be the other way around. Just punched them with the Galleys at hand and later switched Sicily to Galleys. After that they were going down, no problem. RNG likes me, or what was going on?

	06-11-2004 12:45									#8
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*bump*

I saw many new families joining the Imperial Succession List. Well, citizens of Rome, future Emperors, you are Senators as well. Thus you may feel the need to join the discussion concerning our present and future plans. Please, don't hesitate to share your thoughts.


When more people have stated the goals they would like to see pusrused, I will start a poll as an official Senate Voting.

	06-11-2004 16:55									#9
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I have very little expirience with conquest scenarios. I have once the one with the seven anciant wonders and lost it. That's all.

But I think we should take at least Sicily from Carthage and expand north and west before destroy them.
The Legions seem to be very pretty units

	07-11-2004 01:04									#10
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I sugest on turn 1, exploring to discover the celts and then signing a MA with the Celts against Carthage.

Also establish an embassy with the Celts, and buy a map from them.

And send our forces to capture that SE city on Silicy.

I'm not sure on Demi-god how many wonders we should be trying to produce at a given time. The Temple of Artismis is by far the most valuable, next the other happiness wonders, then Colossus. We'd have to be very lucky to get a SGL.

I'm thinking we should leave Augustus army shell empty waiting for better units.

Research that tech that allows Legionary II first.

Next target : Western city in Silicy.

Then : Those islands owned by Carthage.

After that, I'm not sure on this level weather we should go after the Carthagans in Spain or send a rading force to NA that sacks Carthage to the ground, then loads back onto ships, sails to another city, lands, and sacks, repeat...

On tech path, I sugest beeling to Legionary III after aquiring Legionary II.

I sugest that cities without rivers be used as citizen pumps once they hit size 6.

	07-11-2004 01:19									#11
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After you sack the Capitol (Carthage) dealinh with Carthage will be pretty easy, and then we can move north.

	07-11-2004 02:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 After you sack the Capitol (Carthage) dealinh with Carthage will be pretty easy, and then we can move north.

If we make it. It is the capital, so even the AI will have considerable defences there. Hopefully only one Numidian, but if there are more by the time we get there, this could get ugly. Without further evidence presented, I as a Senator, am against it.

I say take the islands and forget about Carthage. Remember, we can sign a peace treaty with them. We have easier targets to the north with far more valuable land to take. And it should be very easy to defend, if we set posts to shut off the Iberian penisula. After that, well the Legion III should have no trouble taking on the Greeks...

	07-11-2004 05:32									#13
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I have taken Carthage numerous times, its actually pretty easy.

That was on Emporer Level but still.

The hard part was HOLDING it from counterattack

I say we DONT do that. Just take it, pilliage it and move on.

I am looking for a "Carthage Crippling" so we dont have to worry about our backs as much and then move North and North West against the Celts and eventually the Goths.

	08-11-2004 00:20									#14
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We are not allowed to sign a peace treaty with Carthage due to the locked war.

We can sign peace treaties with anyone else.

No point of holding onto Carthage, raize to the ground and load back onto ships and head to next target.

I wouldn't attack the Celts until the Carthagians are kicked out of Spain, in fact having the Celts as an ally until then would be a big help.

	08-11-2004 04:40									#15
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The locked war between carthage and Rome is being disabled to allow more trading and diplomacy options !!

If you look at it historically this is only right, as Rome was not locked into continuous war with Carthage was it.

	08-11-2004 13:18									#16
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Into how much detail should we be going with the strategy here? I loaded the save and have gone through the cities and could now make a [b]suggestion[\b] on production, commerce and food.

foreign affairs
It seems we start with quite a little army. Taking Sicily would be a good choice I think and not too hard. With the 2 Leg I and archer in Messana thw right handed city could be taken and with Leg I from the mainland Messana can be quickly enforced, with troops that can go for the other city. After Sicily, I would think we could take the other islands as well after which we could sign for peace with the Carthegenians.
To the north we have plenty of troops and the possibility to build an army. The Celts haven't gotten IW yet and don't impress me too much. Why not fight a 2 front war?

domestic affairs
On the first turn we can found 2 cities. I thought of 9999 from Padua and 7778 from Pisae. Near Rome another citizen can found a city on the second turn. I forgot to write down were exactly. However, I only want to suggest, so this is good enough

research
tactics or literature? I can see the advantages of the Leg II, but with literature, we could build some libraries and even the GL. This can be an investment that pays out later in the game. After the quick two front war, I would suggest to focus on expansion and eforcement of the Roman economy.

	08-11-2004 13:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by McMeadows To the north we have plenty of troops and the possibility to build an army. The Celts haven't gotten IW yet and don't impress me too much. Why not fight a 2 front war?

Because in the first turns we will be short on reinforcements against them. While it doesn't hurt too much on Emperor (it does stall the advancement, though), it might hurt on Demi. They'll be coming in numbers we won't have.

	08-11-2004 14:32									#18
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Should we pillage the city of Chartago then reload the troups on the ships and take Sicily on our way back.

	08-11-2004 14:47									#19
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quote: Originally posted by jagjef Should we pillage the city of Chartago then reload the troups on the ships and take Sicily on our way back.

I like the way you're thinking.

	09-11-2004 11:32									#20
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ahh it would be good to cripple Carthage early, then take Sicily, then head into the hills after the Celts (don't believe I said that )

possibly have built up another sizeable force ready to join up for the attack on the Celts

	09-11-2004 15:05									#21
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I know that the war with Carthage is no longer locked, but I didn't realise we don't actually start at war at all - infact no-one does (unless my save is bugged...).

With war between Macedon and Persia no longer a certainty, we can't take it for granted that our eastern shores will be untroubled.

On a positive note, we are the only ones with a mastery of Mathmatics.

Perhaps we could trade our surplus Iron to Egypt for a little extra gold, before anyone else does?

	10-11-2004 02:25									#22
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus The locked war between carthage and Rome is being disabled to allow more trading and diplomacy options !! If you look at it historically this is only right, as Rome was not locked into continuous war with Carthage was it.

Darn it, I was planning on downloading it the turn before we win, and press enter to have it to have it store in my computers HoF. With the mod, it won't store.

I think we're making it much easier by disabeling this locked war, particularly if we're leaving in the locked war between Greece and Persia.

	10-11-2004 02:54									#23
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On research priority, I say Legionaries II is far more important at this point. We're going to be in our GA very shortly (as soon as the first Legonary I attacks anything) which will boost commerce and therefore science.

Plus we really don't have the road network in place for getting the most out of libaries yet.

Legionary III + Heavy Calvary are the win the game units, plus these techs are in the Imperalism path.
Imperalism is the win the game goverment.

So, I think we should beeline to Republic for Legionary III thru Legionary II first, then get Literature if someone else doesn't reaserach it first and the pre-req to Imperalism, then reserach Philosphacy and choose Imperalism as our free tech.

	10-11-2004 02:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by jagjef Should we pillage the city of Chartago then reload the troups on the ships and take Sicily on our way back.

I recomend taking Silicy first [shared landmass and very underdefended at this point] and then sack Chartago and take Sardinia and Corscia on the way back.

Yeah, if we've turned off the lock war, we can talk peace at that point that Carthage would give up all it's remaining cities in Sardina and Corsica. (This would be historical 1st Punic War)

If we're taking on the Celts that early, we should try to cripple them by advancing at least to their capital. The river valley is more profitable than Southern France / Northern Spain, so there's no point yet for a war that would only be over that city blocking us.

	11-11-2004 22:06									#25
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I like the war plan of jon. We will have a very good offensive base to Carthago when Sicily gets ours.

	12-11-2004 01:30									#26
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Lets do the best of both worlds..Growth and Conquest

Get involved in the land grab towrds the Celts, before the other AI's jump in. Use close city formation to help build a wedge once our great culture spreads.

Do we want Carth's mad at us once for taking their islands here and there, or knock them out of Spain. I prefer taking the large land mass first. The Carth's canr sail around it...

	12-11-2004 01:46									#27
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Unless we've moded the AI build perference, the Carths and Macdeonias will both build naval units early and often.

The minor barb tribes won't at all [build never], but do start with a settler in England, so they aren't going to be colonizing oveaseas in other landmasses.

To my knowelge Persia is allowed to build naval units.

So, yes the islands are more useful immedately to us than Spain.

As far getting Carthage mad at us, that's quite fine. I think we only want 20 - 30 turns of "peace" after napping the islands before declaring war to conquer Spain anyway. And if we declare peace for the rest of Spain, I envsion only 20 - 30 turns before attacking them in North Africa to finish the wipeout.

	12-11-2004 03:55									#28
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The Carthage capitol can cause flips on Sicily so maybe that needs burning in the first war !!

	14-11-2004 17:44									#29
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Two turns done, we're on the verge of a war - on Sicily and just west of the Alps.

Legions are marching and Sicily and should be liberating it soon. The Celts shall meet us in a turn. If it was a SP game, I'd probably send the Celts to war with Carthage and then still attack the Celts. Just to make things interesting.

I'm thinking about leaving the barb camps in the Alps as a training ground for Elite Legions. They could provide easy targets and could be held in check by a very small force. What are your opinions, Senators?

	14-11-2004 17:47									#30
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train our legions by whipping barbarian dogs? Genius!

Liberating Sicily- only through extensive burning I hope.