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Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
However, the trend is unmistakable. Lefties tend to be pessimistic, Righties tend to be optimistic.
The sample is statistically insignificant.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 03:52 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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In other news, Bush recently announced OMFG TERRORISTS ARE VERYWHERE TRYING OT KIDNAP YOUR CHIDLREN BLWO UP NUKES HIJACK PLANES MAKE TRAINS EXPLODE SPREAD ANTHRAX OMGG WE HAVE TO SUSPEND THE CONSTITUTION OMG RUN ITS A TERORIRST RUN!!!11

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:07
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Ann Coulter also believes that Bush bashing did a lot for Bush; but faults Karl Rove for not emphasizing the gay issue and even having Bush come out for civil unions. She reason that had Bush hammered Kerry on this issue, Bush's margin would have been greater:

"To Michael Moore, George Soros, Terry McAuliffe, Dan Rather, Al Franken and the whole gang at Air America Radio – you were great, guys! Thanks for the help! We couldn't have done it without you!

Of course, we could have done it a lot earlier on election night but for "Boy Genius" Karl Rove. It's absurd that the election was as close as it was. The nation is at war, Bush is a magnificent wartime leader, and the night before the election we didn't know if a liberal tax-and-spend, Vietnam War-protesting senator from Massachusetts would beat him.

If Rove is "the architect" – as Bush called him in his acceptance speech – then he is the architect of high TV ratings, not a Republican victory. By keeping the race so tight, Rove ensured that a race that should have been a runaway Bush victory would not be over until the wee hours of the morning.

As we now know, the most important issue to voters was not terrorism, but moral values. Marriage amendments won by lopsided majorities in all 11 states where they were on the ballot. Even in Oregon, the state targeted by gay marriage advocates as their best shot of defeating a marriage amendment, the amendment passed by 57 percent – a figure noticeable for being larger than the percentage of votes cast for Bush in Oregon. In the great state of Mississippi, the marriage amendment passed with 88 percent of the vote.

Seventy percent to 80 percent of Americans oppose gay marriage and partial-birth abortion. Far from appealing exclusively to a narrow Republican base, opposition to gay marriage is strongest among the Democratic base: blacks, Hispanics, blue-collar workers and the elderly. There were marriage amendments on the ballot in Michigan and Ohio. Bush won Ohio narrowly and lost Michigan by only 2 points. How different might that have been if Bush hadn't run from the issue.

But Rove concluded Bush should stay mum on gay marriage and partial-birth abortion – contravening the politicians' rule of thumb: Talk about your positions that are wildly popular with voters. "Boy Genius" Rove decided Bush shouldn't even run radio ads on gay marriage, and at the last minute, Bush started claiming he was in favor of civil unions, just like John Kerry.

Amazingly, it was the Democrats – the ones who support gay marriage – who used the gay issue for political advantage, most famously when Kerry gay-baited Mary Cheney during the third debate.

The one toss-up Senate seat lost by the Republicans was Pete Coors in Colorado, where the Democrats did not hesitate to run commercials of a bacchanalian gay festival in Canada sponsored by Coors Brewing Co. The most narrow Republican win in a toss-up Senate race was in Alaska, where the Republican candidate was another "progressive" on the social issues.

When contemplating a former New York mayor as their next presidential candidate, Republicans should remember: This election should have been over sometime in August, not 1 a.m. election night."

http://www.anncoulter.org/

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:10 Visit Dis's homepage!
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who cares about moral values?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
who cares about moral values?

21% of the American voters list them as their primary concern.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
who cares about moral values?
I do, in between trying to nail every pretty young woman I meet and expanding my economic prowess.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:42 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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Got spare money?

That's the irony for liberals like me - our side loses so we just concentrate on getting wealthier.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:19
Cool  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:44 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
In other news, Bush recently announced OMFG TERRORISTS ARE VERYWHERE TRYING OT KIDNAP YOUR CHIDLREN BLWO UP NUKES HIJACK PLANES MAKE TRAINS EXPLODE SPREAD ANTHRAX OMGG WE HAVE TO SUSPEND THE CONSTITUTION OMG RUN ITS A TERORIRST RUN!!!11


Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
That's the irony for liberals like me - our side loses so we just concentrate on getting wealthier.


I thought your side viewed wealth as evil.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 06:59 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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Er no - another conservative lie.

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 07:01
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Lilberals like their own wealth. It's only everyone else's wealth they want to redistribute.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Er no - another conservative lie.


Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 07:09
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So in the words of Orwell, all animals are not equal?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 07:10 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Ned is quoting a pinko socialist! Why do you hate America?

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 07:41 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Has anyone considered that so called "educated people" are really not that smart? Maybe the fault lies with the teachers. What good does it to sit in school half your life listening to the opinions of educated fools? On the other hand there are quite a few left in this nation who have taught themselves to think for themselves and they refuse to be led about by the self appointed elite who for some reason feel themselves qualified to lead people who have more brains than they do. Good first post Horse. But they will never get it. A great man once said that they strain at knats and swallow camels. Meanwhile, eat your hearts out. Bush won.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 08:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Ned is quoting a pinko socialist! Why do you hate America?


Oh don't you just love hypocrisy in action.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 08:58 Visit Dis's homepage!
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so what is more evil?

liberalism or conservatism?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 09:00 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Oh don't you just love hypocrisy in action.


"Hypocrisy" is not the same thing as "making fun of Ned."

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned

Oh don't you just love hypocrisy in action.


Actually I could care less about your posts.

You're only good for trolling.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 09:58 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
so what is more evil?

liberalism or conservatism?


Neither - moderation in all things.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Ned is quoting a pinko socialist! Why do you hate America?


Which was it Ramo, pinko socialist or anarchist?

You really do need to keep your spins straight.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:33 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Anarchists are pinko socialists. Not sure if he was anarchist, but he certainly had anarchist leanings.

And what exactly am I supposed to be "spinning?"

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:37
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Reality?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:39 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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In what way? Are you trying to tell me that Orwell wasn't a socialist?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:41 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Rather pathetic how the right calls every innocuous statement a "spin."

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Which was it Ramo, pinko socialist or anarchist?

You really do need to keep your spins straight.


Orwell was a socialist, that's a matter of historical record. He was a member of a number of socialist organizations. As far as anarchist leanings go, he definately wasn't an anarchist but he sympathized with them as can be seen in Homage to Catalonia.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:45 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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Actually Orwell turned against the left during WWII and became an informer for British domestic intelligence - MI5 - reporting to them on his left wing friends and acquaintances.

Quite ironic really.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:51
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In previous conversations with me I referred to Orwell as having dabbled in Trotskyism you were quick to point out he was an Anarchist.

Now which is it?

And if you are going to use the phrases such as pinko socialist to describe him that doesn't cut it if you want to imply anarchist, please use the more appropriate phraseology such as libertarian socialist otherwise you imply as I did that he had statist leanings.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 10:58 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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I don't recall these previous conversations, but I may have pointed out that Orwell mentioned in Homage to Catalonia that he preferred the anarcho-syndicalist CNT over the "Trotskyite" POUM that he joined. As I said, he had anarchist leanings. In any case, he was a socialist.

And you still haven't pointed out what I'm trying to spin.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 11:07
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I'm trying to clarify his stance on state (and it would appear to be a changeable view were I to guess). His stance regarding workers owning means of production is not in question, at least for his earlier days while enamored of the communist movement during the Spanish civil war that is. (at least until he started to see the error of his ways during WW2, hence my preference for his discussions during this time period)

Pinko socialist implies the whole gamut of socialist offerings.

You were specific before that he was an anarchist I simply wished you to clarify your position. My apologies for categorizing that as spin other than the appearance now is that you have backtracked from the hard position that Orwell was an anarchist.

 
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