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Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 05:32
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Oh, how convenient, let's use flame trowers and hollow-tip ammo then...

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 05:33 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Rock and roll.

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 05:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
The main issue is getting Zarqawi. I have a gut feeling he has already gone and is in Baghdad.


I thought the main issue was getting bin Laden.
So should Bagdad be leveled to the ground too?

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 05:38
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Tripledoc: Iraqi forces are not bound by the Geneva convention while fighting insurgents in their own country.


Iraqi forces are under the command of American officers, and the Iraqi guerillas constitute a levee en masse amply protected by the geneva Convention.

Falluja constitutes a part of the Republic of Iraq. Allawi works for the occupation, without popular mandate.

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
Warlord
Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 06:18
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quote:
Except there were no insurgents at the hospital. And I have seen photographs of doctors beeing forced down to the floor and handcuffed.


Trip, when we have security alerts on my ship I get placed on the groud and secured by the reaction forces because they do not have time at that moment to tell freind from foe. The usually do it with a polite "sorry DISBO", because they know damned well who I am. Being detained doesn't hurt anyone, and it is better then being shot. There are certain realities to doing something like taking down a building. Thumbs up to US/Iraqi troops for doing their best not to kill innocent doctors.

And since you like the Geneva conventions so much, why don't you find me the part about civilians unaffiliated with any official belligerent power taking up arms.

Then find me the part about doing so without uniforms that clearly identify you as a belligerent.

The find me the part about using civilians as sheilds.

Then the part about targeting civilians

The Geneva convention is not you ally in this arguement Tip

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 07:51
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That is just like saying that the police should not act according to the law, because they claim to have information that say the supposed criminals are not acting acording to the law.

So it is not a logical argument.

Anyway, I must say that the guerillas are clearly marked. They wear black clothes and covered faces most if the time, and they have weapons. Certainly they are no less marked than the western mercenaries. Also a contravention of the geneva convention to inject these kind of people into battle. In fact mercenaries get absolutely no protection at all.

They are not using civilians as shield, they operate amongst civilians - which is a big difference. Most combat is set in an urban setting.

They are not deliberately targeting civilians.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 08:36
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It would be nice to get some of the 380 tons of high explosives back. So long as that stuff is out there it will be a major supply for suicidie bombers. Until recovered or expended it is a major threat to the stability of the area and could be used to provide a major disruption of the impending election.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc


I thought the main issue was getting bin Laden.

That was the most transparent of Bush's lies, and you fell for it.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 16:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It would be nice to get some of the 380 tons of high explosives back. So long as that stuff is out there it will be a major supply for suicidie bombers. Until recovered or expended it is a major threat to the stability of the area and could be used to provide a major disruption of the impending election.


There was an estimated 600,000 tons of explosives in Iraq when the U.S. invaded. Even if you take at face value the Adminstration's claims of having recovered or destroyed 400,000 tons of explosives, that still leaves 200,000 tons out there for the insurgents to potentially use. The 380 tons of explosives harped on before the election, even if they are actually missing, mean jack **** in the greater scheme of things...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 16:25 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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CHIEF
"Did you find a CO, captain ?"

WILLARD
"There's no ****ing CO here. Let's just
get going."

CHIEF
"Which way, captain ?"

WILLARD
"You know which way, Chief."

CHIEF
"You're on your own, captain. You wanna go on ?
Like this bridge : We build it every night. Charlie
blows it right back up again. Just so the generals can
say the road's open. Think about it. Who cares ?"

WILLARD
"Just get us up the river !"

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Pax
Where did the Iraqi "commando's" come from?


Detroit.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Oh, how convenient, let's use flame trowers and hollow-tip ammo then...

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
Warlord
Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 17:32
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quote:
Anyway, I must say that the guerillas are clearly marked. They wear black clothes and covered faces most if the time, and they have weapons. Certainly they are no less marked than the western mercenaries. Also a contravention of the geneva convention to inject these kind of people into battle. In fact mercenaries get absolutely no protection at all.

They are not using civilians as shield, they operate amongst civilians - which is a big difference. Most combat is set in an urban setting.

They are not deliberately targeting civilians.


Yep, that is exactly it Trip, you are so smart!

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 18:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


There was an estimated 600,000 tons of explosives in Iraq when the U.S. invaded. Even if you take at face value the Adminstration's claims of having recovered or destroyed 400,000 tons of explosives, that still leaves 200,000 tons out there for the insurgents to potentially use. The 380 tons of explosives harped on before the election, even if they are actually missing, mean jack **** in the greater scheme of things...


Yup, we should harp about the 200 kiltons of conventional explosives they failed to secure in a year and a half, the morons.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 18:53
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Tired of ads?

Go right ahead. I always enjoy watching you stumble into your latest pwning.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 18:55
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Ahh, as alwasy, you are so cute when you are wrong PV. Maybe we should put up a sign:

"Beware cute and clueless poster"

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 18:59
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How exactly am I wrong? Are you saying that there aren't 200,000 tons of conventional explosives unaccounted for in Iraq, right after you yourself referred to them?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:02
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No, but then , given your reading comprehension skills, I am not surprised by the .

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:04 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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If you two don't chill, I'll just restrict you both... This crap is going on across multiple threads.

Chill or be CHILLED!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:05
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I don't see an answer there in all the snide posturing.

edit: Sorry, Ming...

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:07
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You said that the 380 tons of missing explosives was no big deal, because after securing 2/3 of Iraq's massives stockpiles, 1/3, or 200 kilitons, was not.

Fine, correct, 380 tons is no big deal if we consider that due to administration incompetence, 200,000 tons are out there as a problem.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:11
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I don't see why you'd attribute the unaccounted for 200,000 tons of explosives solely to the incompetence of the Bush Administration. Saddam is the one who dispersed and hid the stuff. Almost seems like you have an axe to grind...

At any rate, you've admitted that I wasn't wrong. Huzzah!

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:55 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Almost seems like you have an axe to grind...


An axe to grind? Shirley you aren't serious.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 19:58
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Of course not!

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 20:00 Visit DanS's homepage!
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AH: And to think, that movie was only listed as #28 on the top movies list. (The extended version with the Playboy bunnies is so... top notch .)

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 20:39
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On the missing explosives, has the Army made its report yet on what happened? The last I heard was that the 3rd ID took the HE itself sometime in May.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 20:41
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No one cares now, Ned. The opportunity to hurt Bush with that story has passed...

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 20:45
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On Falluja, it appears there are few defenders. Why?

Drachasor is offline Drachasor
Warlord

Jun 2004
time: 00:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 20:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I don't see why you'd attribute the unaccounted for 200,000 tons of explosives solely to the incompetence of the Bush Administration. Saddam is the one who dispersed and hid the stuff. Almost seems like you have an axe to grind...


He hardly "hid" them. He placed them in an extremely large Bunker and they were sealed there by the IAEA. You have a very odd definition of the word "hide."

Oh, and the latest info I got indicates that the complex was observed while it was being looted:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast...s.ap/index.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...2-2004Nov1.html

Oh and some other stuff has been lost too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/06/p...html?oref=login

Lastly, I would note I can find no evidence that Army personel moved the explosives. Ned, can you give a link that supports this statement of yours?

Best I have seen is that some of the explosives in the area were destroyed, but the complex is very, very large, there were many, many looters that went through it, and there is no evidence the high explosives were destroyed.

-Drachasor

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 09-11-2004 20:58
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how many 'civilians' are still in falluja ?

i think that answers the question...

anyway, better to get this mess over with indeed. and let's hope that this will be the last time you have to assault this city. one would start to think you guys are doing it for sports.

 
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