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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:19
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quote:
NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - Thousands of U.S. Marines and Army troops punched their way on Monday into two Fallujah neighborhoods where insurgents are considered the strongest, kicking off a massive assault that seeks to put an end to half a year of insurgent control of the Sunni Muslim city.
The troops, backed by the 1st Cavalry Division's tanks and armor, swarmed into the city's northwestern Jolan district, the warren-like historic heart of Fallujah.
At the same time, some 4,000 troops, backed by the 1st Cavalry Division's tanks and armor, went into the northeastern Askari district.
The prelude to the assault was a crushing air and artillery bombardment of the city that rose to a crescendo by Monday evening, with U.S. jets dropping bombs around the clock and big guns pounding the city every few minutes with high-explosive shells.
(AP) U.S. Army doctors try to stabilize a four-year-old child with schrapnel wounds to the head who was...
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The first punch came from just north of the city, where Marine Regimental Combat Team 1 - more than 4,000 Marines and Army troops, along with Iraqi allies - had been massed Sunday night.
Earlier Monday, American troops fought their way into the western outskirts of the city, seizing a hospital and two bridges over the Euphrates River in the first stage of a major assault on the insurgent stronghold.
The U.S. military reported its first casualties of the offensive - two Marines killed when their bulldozer flipped over into the Euphrates. A military spokesman estimated that 42 insurgents were killed across Fallujah in the opening round of attacks.
Separately, militants attacked a Catholic church in southern Baghdad, setting it ablaze, according to police and eyewitnesses.
A huge explosion at the church in the southern Doura neighborhood left about 20 people injured, said a policeman who declined to give his name.
(AP) U.S. Army Ssg. Samuel Viera cleans blood from the breast plate of a flack jacket after a U.S....
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Eyewitness Mohammed Aziz said that strong explosions rocked the area.
"Half an hour ago, I felt my house shaking three times and then saw the fire set in the church," he said.
Police sealed off the area and fired bullets in the air to disperse the crowd, said another witness, Lyon Emad Elias, whose home faces the church.
Back in Fallujah, four foreigners, including two Moroccans and two unidentified people, were captured when U.S. and Iraqi forces swept into the first objective: the city's main hospital, which the military and Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said was under insurgent control.
Iraqi soldiers stormed through the facility, blasting open doors and pulling handcuffed patients into the halls in search of gunmen.
(AP) Insurgents load weapons during an attack on U.S. forces in Fallujah, Iraq, Monday, Nov. 8, 2004....
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Allawi said he had given the green light for international and Iraqi forces to launch the long-awaited offensive against Fallujah, considered the strongest bastion of Iraq's Sunni insurgents. "We are determined to clean Fallujah of terrorists," he said.
Allawi initially said 38 people were killed in the hospital seizure, but the U.S. military said no one was killed in the hospital operation. A military spokesman later gave a figure of 42 dead across the city since the Fallujah assault began. The spokesman, 1st. Sgt. Steven Valley, said the situation was "fluid" and information on casualties was difficult to pin down.
Doctors in Fallujah reported 10 people killed and 11 wounded during the bombardment overnight.
Throughout the morning, artillery and mortars pounded targets in Fallujah and on its outskirts, and a U.S. jet swooped low to fire rockets at insurgent positions. An AC-130 gunship raked the city all night long with cannon fire, and and before dawn, four 500-pound bombs were dropped, raising orange fireballs over the city's rooftops.
Outside the city. U.S. troops set up mortar positions and filled sandbags in preparation for an anticipated assault. U.S. troops clashed with insurgents in several locations along the outskirts of the city, firing rifle shots as they took cover around corners and behind the doors of their Humvees.
(AP) Insurgents fire mortar rounds toward U.S. forces in Fallujah, Iraq, Monday, Nov. 8, 2004. American...
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U.S. commanders have avoided any public estimate on how long it may take to capture Fallujah, where insurgents fought the Marines to a standstill last April in a three-week siege.
Marine commanders have warned the new offensive could bring the heaviest urban fighting since the Vietnam war. Some 10,000 U.S. Marines, Army soldiers and Iraqi forces are around Fallujah, where commanders estimate around 3,000 insurgents are dug in. More than half the civilian population of some 300,000 people is believed to have fled already.
Much depends on whether the bulk of the defenders, believed to be Iraqis from the Fallujah area, decide to risk the destruction of the city or try to slip away in the face of overwhelming force. Foreign jihadis may choose to fight to the end, but it's clear how many of them are still in the city.
Another issue is the role of Iraqi forces fighting alongside the Americans. A National Public Radio correspondent embedded with the Marines outside Fallujah reported desertions among the Iraqis. One Iraqi battalion shrunk from over 500 men down to 170 over the past two week - with 255 members quitting over the weekend, the correspondent said.
Clerics in Fallujah denounced Iraqi troops participating in the assault, calling them the "occupiers' lash on their fellow countrymen."
"We swear by God that we will stand against you in the streets, we will enter your houses and we will slaughter you just like sheep," the clerics said in a statement.
A senior aide to firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr urged Iraqi forces not to fight alongside U.S. troops.
"We appeal to the Iraqi National Guard and Iraqi police not to help the occupation troops as they want to target the Iraqi people in Fallujah," said Sheikh Abdul-Hadi al-Daraji. The Iraqi troops should not be a tool in the hands of the occupation troops."
In the first foray across the river into Fallujah proper, Marines on Monday morning secured an apartment building in the city's northwest corner, said Capt. Brian Heatherman, of the 3rd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment.
"The Marines have now gained a foothold in the city," said Heatherman, 32.
He said there were some Iraqi casualties as the troops seized the building, where Marines found an improvised bomb hanging above a doorway - one of the many variety of booby traps they expect to come across in the urban battle.
U.S. and Iraqi commanders have vowed to stamp out Sunni Muslim guerrillas controlling Fallujah and other cities north and west of Baghdad ahead of vital January elections.
Allawi said emergency measures would be imposed on Fallujah and Ramadi, another insurgent stronghold nearby, beginning at 6 p.m. Roads and government facilities in the two cities will be closed, all weapons will be banned, Iraq's borders with Syria and Jordan will be closed and Baghdad's international airport will be shut down for 48 hours.
Allawi's government announced Sunday that it was imposing a 60-day state of emergency across Iraq - except for the Kurdish-run north.
One key reason to take Fallujah hospital early was likely to control information: The facility was the main source of Iraqi death tolls during the first U.S. siege of Fallujah in April, and U.S. commanders accused doctors there of exaggerating numbers.
The U.S military said Monday that insurgents had been in control of Fallujah General Hospital - located on the west bank of the Euphrates - and were "forcing the doctors there to release propaganda and false information."
The reports of hundreds of civilians killed in the April siege - and scenes of soccer fields turned into mass graves for the dead - generated strong public outrage in Iraq and elsewhere in the Arab world, prompting the Bush administration to call off the offensive. U.S. officials insisted the numbers were overblown.
The new offensive, launched after sundown Sunday, came after government negotiators reported the failure of last-minute peace talks. "We have no other option but to take the necessary measures to protect Iraqi people from these killers and liberate Fallujah," Allawi said.
The Association of Muslim Scholars, an influential Sunni clerics group that has threatened to boycott elections, condemned the assault on Fallujah, calling it "an illegal and illegitimate action against civilian and innocent people."
Over the weekend, insurgents launched a wave of attacks in central Iraq in an apparent attempt to divert attention away from Fallujah. About 60 people were killed - including two Americans soldiers - and 75 injured.
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Pax
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Where did the Iraqi "commando's" come from?
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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:19
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Let's hope that in a few days the question won't be "where did the Iraqi commando's go to?"
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
If the City goes quickly and without much trouble, that will only mean th insurgents scaterred and got out of dodge to fight another day in toher places.
Obviously the US will win this battle- the problem is, I seriously doubt this will be a knockout punch at all. |
Some will undoubteld scatter, and Zarqawi may escape. But they will lose money, arms, fighters - the coalition will pick up intell - and probably they will not gain a new sanctuary.
But this helps to define the metrics for success, given that the Coalitin will certainly end up in control of they city
1. Hostiles killed and captured- the more the better, despite the claim that this leads to more. Captured better than killed, as more intell gathered. The more of the killed and captured who are foregn jihadis, rather than Iraqis, the better.
2. Fewer Coalition troops killed the better. Not only keep support at home, but to impress folks over there.
3. Fewer civilian casualties the better.
4. Less material damage to the city and its infrastructure the better
5. The more insurgent war material and money captured/destroyed the better
6. The more intell material captured the better
7. The better friendly Iraqis perform the better.
So far we've captured in excess of 40 hostiles at the hospital. At least a couple of Moroccans. Iraqi commandos seem to have performed very professionally, though NPR reports desertions in other Iraqi units.
And hospital captured INTACT. Good.
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Patroklos
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Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
The same way, I suppose, that literally dozens Fedayiin Saddam offered tough resistance to American mechanized divisions back during the invasion, as repeatedly reported in the news. |
Exactly, the media needs to monitor their adjective usage so we can actually get some realtive meaning from the descriptions.
It is like my mom saying my room was a disaster area whether I had left a sole sock on the floor or set off a hand grenade.
Local news is great. "Special fact finding commision super duper team 5 special uber-secret report, are their actual weapons at the Yorktown Naval Weapons Station? Excluse team five report at six!"
Last edited by Patroklos on 09-11-2004 at 00:59
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:19
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Its pretty obvious that the US will win the battle militarilly, and this will slow down the insurgency for a few months perhaps- the issue is, will this be a "crushing blow" a "turning point", or will this knock out the insurgents? Most likely not- we have underestimated the number of insurgents and how widespread they are time after time.
So come January , we will still have attacks on police, still have roadside bombings, still have suicide attacks- maybe less than currently, but still commonly, and that does not even answer the question of what the sunni pop. will do with the election, depending what their choices are, or what happens post election.
I fear Fallujah is the new Saddam- the idea that getting one thing (or person) will magically solve the problem of the insurgency.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Its pretty obvious that the US will win the battle militarilly, and this will slow down the insurgency for a few months perhaps- the issue is, will this be a "crushing blow" a "turning point", or will this knock out the insurgents? Most likely not- we have underestimated the number of insurgents and how widespread they are time after time.
So come January , we will still have attacks on police, still have roadside bombings, still have suicide attacks- maybe less than currently, but still commonly, and that does not even answer the question of what the sunni pop. will do with the election, depending what their choices are, or what happens post election.
I fear Fallujah is the new Saddam- the idea that getting one thing (or person) will magically solve the problem of the insurgency. |
We shall see. Its not clear to what extent the insurgents in Baghdad, Mosul, and elsewhere rely on Falujah for money, materials, as a training base, etc.
And of course theres still political work to be done in Iraq, primarilly by the Iraqis. But first they must be given sufficient security to carry out that work. And sufficient security would enable expanded UN operations, the return of NGO's, etc. I dont think the importance of improving security should be underestimated.
And I dont think the role of Fallujah in the insurgency should be underestimated. The insurgents themselves have devoted heavy resources to its defense.
We may have underestimated the number of insurgents in the past - notably when for months the Pentagon said, no more than 5000, and then a figure of 20000 was quoted, though i note it was never clarified whom that represented. Certainly these massive numbers did NOT prevent the restoration of order in Najaf. And Basra. And Sadr City. While insurgents in Samarra have proved more resilient than those is Sadr City, that may be well be related to their Fallujah connections.
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08-11-2004 21:30
Yeah, our local newies think awfully highly of themselves too. "Live, local, latebreaking!!" They are especially proud of their weatherman (who appears to enjoy saying things like "we COULD see up to XYZ inches of snow" like, oh, every time there is snow coming. XYZ is usually the highest possible projection).
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