09-11-2004 04:55									#61
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Spank the sports monkey

	09-11-2004 05:02									#62
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don't hurt the monkey!!!

	09-11-2004 05:32									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Even Sava doesn't believe this stuff.

	09-11-2004 05:38									#64
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If you actually read the original article with clickable sourcing, its a very convincing case. He backs everything up. There's no need for tinfoil hats.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php

The fact is, Kerry very well may have won. Its a matter now if people are willing to push it. And remember, the Ohio results don't come in until the 12th.

	09-11-2004 05:58									#65
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and the EC doesn't meet until the 7th of december.

	09-11-2004 06:45									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha and the EC doesn't meet until the 7th of december.

Too true.

People forget Bush is President Elect right now... he hasn't started his second term yet.

	09-11-2004 06:48									#67
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Well he's President AND President Elect .

	09-11-2004 06:52									#68
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You call that a good troll? EDIT: damn x-posting

pwn3d

	09-11-2004 07:04									#69
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Even if Kerry conceded and lost fair-and-square, a couple things need to happen:

(1) Every single vote that was cast must be counted.
(2) There must be a major investigation on how the exit polls were so wrong.
(3) Voting system in the USA must be overhauled. Do like Canada and be simple, or do like "flying cars in 1999" and have electronic machines with physical confirmation capability like a paper trail or something.

Ideally, if your vote was spoiled, there would be a way you could make it up. It's patently unfair that a voter loses his rights due to a funky machine or inexperience with the process. But for now, things are one step at a time, and we ought to reduce spoilage as much as we can in the first place.

	09-11-2004 08:31									#70
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Well, what would happen if, when all the votes are counted, Kerry wins Ohio?

	09-11-2004 08:33									#71
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Well, what would happen if, when all the votes are counted, Kerry wins Ohio?

I, personally, would mail you 100 dollars.

	09-11-2004 08:36									#72
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In 2000 all but one media-sponsored recount resulted in Bush retaining the lead.

Here's the New Mexico statistics: 18,000 ballots in spoilage, assuming they vote 2-1 in favor of Kerry, is 12k for Kerry and 6k for Bush. That decreases the margin for Bush from 11,620 to 5,620.

Bush still wins, and Democrats still can't count.

	09-11-2004 08:36									#73
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KERRY/EDWARDS '04 + a week!

	09-11-2004 08:41									#74
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Well, what would happen if, when all the votes are counted, Kerry wins Ohio?

then Kerry wins and is president of the United States.

	09-11-2004 08:44									#75
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Even though he conceeded? I'm not familiar with the rules as far as concession are concerned.

	09-11-2004 08:46									#76
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Bush won the popular and the electoral vote. Lawyers can't change that. Why don't all you perpetual sore losers make the point that Bush has a popular mandate like Gore did in 2000? I have an idea though. Let's just let the lawyers decide all the elections and we can all stay home. The serious responses to this trash thread only confirm what most people on this forum already know: Apolyton is a cross section of an unreal world. I do understand however that some of you are dissapointed that you cannot call Bush the "president select" and other cute little sayings. Get over it. You lost the election.

	09-11-2004 08:48									#77
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Even though he conceeded. It isn't legally binding, and the EC is who decides the next president. As for anyone who says the will of the majority was ignored, I say bovine feces, thats what we have the house of representatives,state legislatures,governors,Senators,etc for.

	09-11-2004 08:50									#78
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However, that said, Bush is in all likelyhood the next president, the provisional ballots were stupid and never should have been handed out, and most of them won't even be counted. Likewise the overseas ballots will probably increase his lead.

	09-11-2004 08:53									#79
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It's rediculous to act like this election was close. It wasn't. Bush has well over 51% of the vote to Kerry's 48.

When was the last time a Democrat got 51%?

1964.

	09-11-2004 08:55									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Bush won the popular and the electoral vote. Lawyers can't change that. Why don't all you perpetual sore losers make the point that Bush has a popular mandate like Gore did in 2000? I have an idea though. Let's just let the lawyers decide all the elections and we can all stay home. The serious responses to this trash thread only confirm what most people on this forum already know: Apolyton is a cross section of an unreal world. I do understand however that some of you are dissapointed that you cannot call Bush the "president select" and other cute little sayings. Get over it. You lost the election.

If you think that lawyers will make an election, it's the fault of the law, not of the lawyers.

	09-11-2004 08:55									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar It's rediculous to act like this election was close. It wasn't. Bush has well over 51% of the vote to Kerry's 48.

	09-11-2004 08:58									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/


If you have statistics from elsewhere with slightly different numbers, that's fine. But CNN does say 51-48.

And again, the last time a Democrat got that sort of majority was 40 years ago.

You can criticize my atrocious spelling, though.

	09-11-2004 08:59									#83
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Yep, this was the narrowest win by an incumbent since Wilson. The only reason why anyone got over 50% this time a around is that third parties haven't been able to rack up any support.

	09-11-2004 09:00									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar It's rediculous to act like this election was close. It wasn't. Bush has well over 51% of the vote to Kerry's 48. When was the last time a Democrat got 51%? 1964.

they are shooting for an ohio victory and therefore an electoral victory on the assumptions that a)A majority of spoiled ballots were Democrats, b) 100% of the provisional ballots will be deemed real votes or cast by people who did not also vote in another precinct, and c)that the overseas vote won't enlarge the president's lead over Kerry.

Or, as a secondary plan if they get Ohio tossed out of the EC over rampant fraud for instance, and New Mexico declared for Kerry he can also win that way.

	09-11-2004 09:02									#85
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No Jag, I'm ing your assertion that this was not a close election.

	09-11-2004 09:02									#86
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@Ramo: Clinton got 49.2% of the vote the second time around. Dole + Perot beat him by a small margin.

	09-11-2004 09:03									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Clinton got 49.2% of the vote the second time around. Dole + Perot beat him by a small margin.

And neither Dole nor Perot were close to Clinton by themselves. They didn't run on the same ticket.

	09-11-2004 09:03									#88
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Why do you assume that every Perot voter would've voted for Dole?

	09-11-2004 09:04									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer No Jag, I'm ing your assertion that this was not a close election.

Again, this is a bigger popular vote victory than any Democrat has gotten in 40 years.

	09-11-2004 09:05									#90
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And yet it was 51% to 48%, which is extremely close.

And people wonder why Bush supporters are called idiots .