09-11-2004 09:05									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Why do you assume that every Perot voter would've voted for Dole?

I don't, but in terms of percentage of popular vote, Bush beat Clinton handily.

	09-11-2004 09:06									#92
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If you look at the polls in '92, for instance, right after Perot temporarily dropped out (after the DNC), Clinton was beating Bush by a rediculous margin. Perot drew a lot of Dem votes.

	09-11-2004 09:06									#93
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quote: I don't, but in terms of percentage of popular vote, Bush beat Clinton handily.

I didn't realize that Bush was running against Clinton. And how is 51% to 49.2% beating 'handily'? Do you have problems doing basic math?

	09-11-2004 09:08									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And yet it was 51% to 48%, which is extremely close. And people wonder why Bush supporters are called idiots .

What defines a close election has changed. Last time around it was 48 to 48. That's close. A 4 million vote margin isn't.

	09-11-2004 09:10									#95
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quote: What defines a close election has changed. Last time around it was 48 to 48. That's close. A 4 million vote margin isn't.

Yes, ONE election has changed what a close election is. Are you that ****ing dense?

	09-11-2004 09:10									#96
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Yes, it is close. A 3% margin is a close race. Arguing against that is absurd.

Yes, 48-48.5 is a closer race, but that's a pretty damn rare occurence.

	09-11-2004 09:12									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I don't, but in terms of percentage of popular vote, Bush beat Clinton handily. I didn't realize that Bush was running against Clinton. And how is 51% to 49.2% beating 'handily'? Do you have problems doing basic math?

You knew perfectly well what I meant.


We've made a big fuss about how "close" this election's going to be, and it wasn't. It's time for people to admit that. In 2000, Gore won the popular vote by 450,000 votes. This time, Bush won by 4.5 million. Ten times the margin that Gore won by last time. We've seen close, and this ain't close.

	09-11-2004 09:14									#98
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quote: You knew perfectly well what I meant.

I really don't. To say that 3% wasn't close is an absolutely absurd statement... to the level of Fez. Just because you want to suck off Bush doesn't mean this election wasn't close. It was far closer than the 1996 election, for one.

	09-11-2004 09:15									#99
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As I've been saying, you'd have to go back to Wilson to find an incumbent race as close as this one.

	09-11-2004 09:17									#100
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Closer, yes. But neither one was "close". Bush had a lead in Florida, Ohio, and the popular vote from the minute the polls closed.

	09-11-2004 09:19									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo As I've been saying, you'd have to go back to Wilson to find an incumbent race as close as this one.

True.

	09-11-2004 09:22									#102
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And Kerry DID pick up more votes than Gore, Clinton, Bush I, and even teh Reagan. It doesn't seem that anyone wants to acknowledge that fact.

	09-11-2004 09:23									#103
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And this is all assuming that there wasn't massive fraud. And there's good reason to think there has been massive fraud what with the hundreds of thousands of reported Presidential votes that exceed the number of total votes in various counties.

Last edited by Ramo on 09-11-2004 at 09:34

	09-11-2004 09:23									#104
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And Michael Dukakis picked up more votes than Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln combined.

	09-11-2004 09:24									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo And this is all assuming that there wasn't massive fraud. And there's good reason to think there's massive fraud what with the hundreds of thousands of reported Presidential votes that exceed the number of total votes in various counties.

Massive fraud

	09-11-2004 09:28									#106
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quote: But neither one was "close".

I'd say a 3% point win is pretty damned close.

	09-11-2004 09:31									#107
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I wouldn't. It's the first time in my lifetime that someone has won with more than 50% of the vote.

	09-11-2004 09:32									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo And this is all assuming that there wasn't massive fraud. And there has been good reason to think there's massive fraud what with the hundreds of thousands of reported Presidential votes that exceed the number of total votes in various counties.

Don't say that too much...people around here will dismiss you by telling you to put on a tinfoil hat

	09-11-2004 09:34									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I wouldn't. It's the first time in my lifetime that someone has won with more than 50% of the vote.

Thats because, for the first time in your lifetime, the third-party movement was extremely limited. The only way you get over 50% is to only have two candidates - its not possible to get less than 50% if there are only two candidates. Both the Dems and the Repubs made sure third parties weren't a factor this year.

	09-11-2004 09:35									#110
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Thats because, for the first time in your lifetime, the third-party movement was extremely limited. The only way you get over 50% is to only have two candidates - its not possible to get less than 50% if there are only two candidates. Both the Dems and the Repubs made sure third parties weren't a factor this year.

I think that the Dems took down Nader and the press took down Badnarik.

	09-11-2004 09:38									#111
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Badnarik took down Badnarik. For all Shrub's faults, at least he has the sense to not go around threatening people who'd take away "his property" with violence.

	09-11-2004 09:42									#112
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quote: I wouldn't. It's the first time in my lifetime that someone has won with more than 50% of the vote.

Why do you have such a love for irrelevancies? Simply because a third party didn't have a good showing, the race wasn't close? What kind of messed up logic is that?

	09-11-2004 09:49									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo And this is all assuming that there wasn't massive fraud. And there's good reason to think there has been massive fraud what with the hundreds of thousands of reported Presidential votes that exceed the number of total votes in various counties.

I wonder if I have standing to sue in Florida over the election.

	09-11-2004 09:57									#114
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Not unless you can prove you've been disinfranchised (actualized harm) .

	09-11-2004 10:04									#115
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The race ain't over boys. Kerry conceeded to avoid a Gore style political circus. He can still win.

Ohio's election results are still officially unofficial:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/11-02-04.htm

	09-11-2004 10:06									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Not unless you can prove you've been disinfranchised (actualized harm) .

Don't grin. This screws you too.

	09-11-2004 10:24									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: You knew perfectly well what I meant. I really don't. To say that 3% wasn't close is an absolutely absurd statement... to the level of Fez. Just because you want to suck off Bush doesn't mean this election wasn't close. It was far closer than the 1996 election, for one.

isn't he a commie? why would he want to suck off bush?

	09-11-2004 11:28									#118
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous We all predicted it. It happened again. There really needs to be some massive changes in voting.

From slashdot:

quote: I've read dozens of submissions about election anomolies in the last week and they show no sign of slowing so I've decided to post a few of the main ones here to let you all discuss them. The first is the Common Dreams report that shows that optically scanned votes have a strange anomoly in florida: the Touchscreen counties roughly matched up to party registration numbers, but optically scanned paper ballot counties showed strangeness like one county where 69.3% registered democrat, but only 28% of them voted for Kerry. Palm Beach County, Florida logged 88,000 more votes than there were voters; that machines in LaPorte, Michigan discounted 50,000 voters; in Columbus, Ohio voting machines gave Bush an extra 4,000 votes; in Broward County, Florida voting machines were counting backwards; Lastly, precincts in New Mexico gave provisional ballots that will never be counted to as many as 10% of all their voters.

There are a bunch of hyperlinks in the original article.

	09-11-2004 12:02									#119
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This whole tin foil hat theory is based upon exit polls which weren't event used correctly nor were they accurate. The TV news shows have gone over the exit poll results agaon and again and everyone, but this lonie, has come to the same conclusions. The exit polls were biased towards big cities instead of rural areas, some people vote early in the day and some people vote later in the day, some people want to talk to pollsters and some don't, some people lie to pollsters, and some wacky reporters don't care if the polls are right or not just as long as they seem to back up their conspiracy theory.

	09-11-2004 15:29									#120
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Interesting story. I just learned that even the greater TV stations are starting to talk about it:
http://home.comcast.net/~hugh.moore...ting_irregs.wmv
And it also seems it's not just only about the exit polls.

Anyway, next time use a pen and a paper and count the votes MANUALLY. I don't know about a more effective way preventing people from spinning theories.