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The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
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Aug 1999
time: 00:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:00
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Kerry Won...here are the facts Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
Kerry Won.
Here are the Facts.
TomPaine.com
Friday, November 5, 2004

by Greg Palast

I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.

Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. At 1:05 a.m. Wednesday morning, CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. The exit polls were later combined with—and therefore contaminated by—the tabulated results, ultimately becoming a mirror of the apparent actual vote. Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.

So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted. [See TomPaine.com, "An Election Spoiled Rotten," November 1.]

Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old and new.

The election in Ohio was not decided by the voters but by something called "spoilage." Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote.

Whose Votes Are Discarded?

And not all votes spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African-American and minority precincts. (To learn more, click here.)

We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here .)

And here's the key: Florida is terribly typical. The majority of ballots thrown out (there will be nearly 2 million tossed out from Tuesday's election) will have been cast by African American and other minority citizens.

So here we go again. Or, here we don't go again. Because unlike last time, Democrats aren't even asking Ohio to count these cards with the not-quite-punched holes (called "undervotes" in the voting biz). Nor are they demanding we look at the "overvotes" where voter intent may be discerned.

Ohio is one of the last states in America to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, “the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.”

But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. When asked if he feared being this year's Katherine Harris, Blackwell noted that Ms. Fix-it's efforts landed her a seat in Congress.

Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss—that's 110,000 votes—overwhelmingly Democratic.

The Impact Of Challenges

First and foremost, Kerry was had by chads. But the Democrat wasn't punched out by punch cards alone. There were also the 'challenges.' That's a polite word for the Republican Party of Ohio's use of an old Ku Klux Klan technique: the attempt to block thousands of voters of color at the polls. In Ohio, Wisconsin and Florida, the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws—almost never used—allowing party-designated poll watchers to finger individual voters and demand they be denied a ballot. The Ohio courts were horrified and federal law prohibits targeting of voters where race is a factor in the challenge. But our Supreme Court was prepared to let Republicans stand in the voting booth door.

In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots—a kind of voting placebo—which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

Enchanted State's Enchanted Vote

Now, on to New Mexico, where a Kerry plurality—if all votes are counted—is more obvious still. Before the election, in TomPaine.com, I wrote, "John Kerry is down by several thousand votes in New Mexico, though not one ballot has yet been counted."

How did that happen? It's the spoilage, stupid; and the provisional ballots.

CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes. Again, the network total added up to that miraculous, and non-existent, '100 percent' of ballots cast.

New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts—Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin.

Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.'

Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the "Little Texas" area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush "won" there 68 percent to 31 percent.

I spoke with Chaves' Republican county clerk before the election, and he told me that this huge spoilage rate among Hispanics simply indicated that such people simply can't make up their minds on the choice of candidate for president. Oddly, these brown people drive across the desert to register their indecision in a voting booth.

Now, let's add in the effect on the New Mexico tally of provisional ballots.

"They were handing them out like candy," Albuquerque journalist Renee Blake reported of provisional ballots. About 20,000 were given out. Who got them?

Santiago Juarez who ran the "Faithful Citizenship" program for the Catholic Archdiocese in New Mexico, told me that "his" voters, poor Hispanics, whom he identified as solid Kerry supporters, were handed the iffy provisional ballots. Hispanics were given provisional ballots, rather than the countable kind "almost religiously," he said, at polling stations when there was the least question about a voter's identification. Some voters, Santiago said, were simply turned away.

Your Kerry Victory Party

So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry—if we count all the votes.

But that won't happen. Despite the Democratic Party's pledge, the leadership this time gave in to racial disenfranchisement once again. Why? No doubt, the Democrats know darn well that counting all the spoiled and provisional ballots will require the cooperation of Ohio's Secretary of State, Blackwell. He will ultimately decide which spoiled and provisional ballots get tallied. Blackwell, hankering to step into Kate Harris' political pumps, is unlikely to permit anything close to a full count. Also, Democratic leadership knows darn well the media would punish the party for demanding a full count.

What now? Kerry won, so hold your victory party. But make sure the shades are down: it may be become illegal to demand a full vote count under PATRIOT Act III.

I used to write a column for the Guardian papers in London. Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failure—a second time—to count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me.


We all predicted it. It happened again. There really needs to be some massive changes in voting.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:03
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Are you saying that stupid people who can't vote effectively are democrats?

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:04 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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yes.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:05
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This Palast guy really is a kook right? No real facts that the spoiled ballots or provisions put Kerry over, just that the exit polls said he was ahead!

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:05
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And you're taking Mr. Palast's word that

quote:
So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate.


Is correct?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:06
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Got spare money?



Even Sava doesn't believe this stuff.

shmily_dana is offline shmily_dana
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Tucson,AZ USA
Aug 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:15
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It seems to me it would be far easier to make a few phone calls and swamp the pollsters with people and bias the exit poll.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:19
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God damn! You people are going insane with paranoia.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:20
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Haven't I read this before?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:22
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From Michael Moore.

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
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Aug 1999
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:23
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KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:26 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Give it up. Half of your country was stupid enough to vote for him. Accept it. Move on.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:28
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I'd put alot of money on this being bullshit, but isn't it seriously time you guys did something about the voting system down there? Why can't there be a standard voting system (whatever one you want) or at most two or three? Aren't there like 10,000 or something?

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:28 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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will they EVER give up?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:29 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Because for some reason federal elections are run at the county level.

Just asks for corruption and inefficiency...

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Jan 1970
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I love it... absolutely NO PROOF... everything is like, in the past... or in the last race...

What a moron... It's over, get a life

Hurricane is offline Hurricane
Warlord
Arctic Hill
May 2001
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:33
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Hey, this is a serious blow to the rumour that all the stupid people voted for Bush.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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No, Thorn posted this before. As I said then, while it it is probably true, without proof, it doesn't matter. Unless I see proof, I'm not gonna get worked up about it.

My question is whether only a candidate has the right to ask for a recount, or whether a citizen of Ohio ould sue to force one.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:34 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Hey, this is a serious blow to the rumour that all the stupid people voted for Bush.


No it's not. Spoiled ballots come in large part from improperly working machines. Overvotes, which is not what is being discussed here, are the result of voter stupidity.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:36
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What a dip ****, The Emperor Fabulaous mucked on some BS by Thorn.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
This Palast guy really is a kook right?


Well, he's a kook who's uncovered a lot of evidence before. While this is a speculation piece on his part, he's been right more often then not.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Look at the opening post's article . . . . . . .



more proof that there are morons on all parts of the political spectrum.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:43 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
more proof that there are morons on all parts of the political spectrum.


Especially in the moderate gay Iowan catagory, huh?

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 08-11-2004 23:16 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

There's a shitload of voter irregularities.

Take a look at these two pages, for instance:
Turnout:
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/Statu...2004&Datamode=E
Voting:
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/Detai...GRP=&DATAMODE=E

Now, take a look at Palm Beach County and add up the total numbers of Presidential votes. You'll get 542,835. Then take a look at turnout for the county; it's 452,061. Now, ask yourself how there can be 90 thousand more votes for President in that county, than there were actual ballots?

In total, there are about a couple hundred thousand more votes for President than there were actual voters in Florida.

Whether these irregularities are simply typing errors or real, and whether they could change the winner of the race is another question entirely.

There are scores more documented errors, for instance nearly four thousand extra Bush votes in a certain Ohio county.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...s.ap/index.html

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You call that a good troll?




EDIT: damn x-posting

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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Inflate your Upload Space

Can Jon Stewart run for the Dems next time? Maybe he wouldn't win, but it would be a lot more entertaining

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
There's a shitload of voter irregularities.


But nobody cares cuz we just want to get the next four years over with as quickly and as quietly as possible.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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Suffering from ads?

It's great to see such high turnout in Florida. 72.3% of registered voters.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
It's great to see such high turnout in Florida. 72.3% of registered voters.


KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
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what's the actual turnout of eligible voters?

 
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