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DarkCloud
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of Lists
Jul 2000
time: 05:18
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TECH COSTS
#11 Nuclear Fission (51)
#12 Miniaturization (329)
#13 Space Flight (666)
#14 The Laser (1508)
#15 Fusion Power (2440)
#16 The Flux Capacitor (3948)
Espionage
Smiley (1)- Defend Research, (1) Stockpile
Spaced Cowboy (3)
Whoha (1)-
muxec (2)
Sparrowhawk (1)- Defend Army Production
Vlad (1) -
Kassiopeia (1)-
Espionage End Game
Not much happened this turn as no one used esponage to attack others, but many spies were stockpiled- leading people to believe that a great war might soon be on the horizon.
Trade
Vlad Antlerkov (11)--> muxec (1089 gp/1331 gp)
Whoha (10)--> Kassiopeia (1070 gp/1300 gp)4056
Smiley (12) ---> Spaced Cowboy (3168 gp /1728 gp) REPUBLICS
Sparrowhawk (13)---> Kassiopeia (4056 gp/4394 gp) REPUBLICS
City Construction
Sparrowhawk- Build four cities: 25 = <75>; 26 = <78>; 27 = <81>; 28 = 84; Total = <318>
Tangier [E5], Woodpecker (E4), Robin (F4), Cockatoo (F7), Egret (F8)
Kassiopeia- at - Kuopio [F12] (39), - Vaasa [G12] (42), - Karkkila [H12] (45), - Mikkeli [F11] (48), - Pirkkala [E10] (51), - Rovaniemi [E11] (54),
Technology
#13 Space Flight (666)---- Smiley
#14 The Laser (1508)---- Smiley, Kassiopeia
#15 Fusion Power (2440)---- Smiley, Kassiopeia
#16 The Flux Cap acitor (3948)-- Smiley
Armies
Sparrowhawk- 375
Spaced Cowboy- 213
Nuke Construction
Sparrowhawk- 4
Foreign Aid
Smiley---> Spaced Cowboy (Techs 13-16)
Sparrowhawk---> Kassiopeia (100 army units)
Kassiopeia---> Sparrowhawk (Techs 14-15)
Government Changes
Vlad Antlerkov-> Republic
Whoha-> Republic
Spaced Cowboy--> Republic
Wonder Construction
#9 NRA- 320 (Kassiopeia) (G10)
#11 NASCAR -500 (Kassiopeia) (H10)
#15 Galactic Overlord- 402 (Sparrowhawk) (D7)
#16 O-rings -256 (Smiley) (L7)
[NO] Galactic Overlord (400) (Kassiopeia)
[NO] #14 Galactic Overlord -300 (Smiley)
[NO] NASCAR <201> @ C7 (Sparrowhawk)
[NO] National Rifle Association <201> @ C6 (Sparrowhawk)
Spaceship Construction
(Sparrowhawk) 1 Part [Thanks to the U. of C.]
Wars
Sparrowhawk- Spaced Cowboy
(90% of armies to the cowboy)
409 of Sparrows invade Spaced Cowboy... 20 Cities Captured. 14 Casualties on the Victor's side. 142 Dudes perish.
Kassiopeia- Vlad Antlerkov JIHAD!
Attack order: G7, H8, I8, J9, J10, J11, J8, I7, H7
use all new armies.
300 Imperial Finnish overrun Vlad's Empire, losing only 6 men in the process and taking all 9 cities.
Wonders of the World
#1 The Tower of Babel [Spaced Cowboy]
#2 The Colosseum [Spaced Cowboy]
#3 The Trojan Horse [Spaced Cowboy]
#4 The Acropolis [Sparrowhawk]
#5 The Silk Road [Spaced Cowboy]
#6 Jihad [Kassiopeia]
#7 Mafia [Kassiopeia]
#8 The Trans-Siberian Railroad (D8) Sparrowhawk
#9 The NRA
#10 The University of California (D9) Sparrowhawk
#11 Nascar [Kassiopeia]
#12 The KGB (B9) Sparrowhawk
#13 Majestic-12 (C8) Sparrowhawk
#14 Galactic Overlord [Sparrowhawk]
#15
#16 O-Rings [Smiley]
New Tech Costs
#11 Nuclear Fission (51)
#12 Miniaturization (257)
#13 Space Flight (399)
#14 The Laser (646)
#15 Fusion Power (1046)
#16 The Flux Capacitor (2820)
Last edited by DarkCloud on 23-12-2004 at 04:40
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Sparrowhawk
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Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:18
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Thanks to Kassiopeia on a well played game, though we have only had one winner in this in the past, obviously it was with help that I was able to win this one.
Having said that, I agree that Foreign Aid is too powerful a tool (and that is why I have exploited it for the last two games with the help of Jonny and Kassiopeia).
Not sure how to limit it though, I too had thought of upping the cost of Wonders, but they are few people building them now, would this become even more of a problem if the cost were increased? How about limiting the number of Wonders that can be built by one player in one turn to prevent someone from running away with the Wonder Race? (it seems that whatever we come up with means more rules where Darkcloud was asking that we simplify the game further  )
Further thoughts in other areas:
- I would like to see the Colleseum and the Tower switched (Colleseum becomes available with tech 1, Tower with tech 2) as the Colleseum seems useless right now, the Tower highly desirable.
- Also I would like to switch the Acropolis with Silk Road, silk road because it expires too soon, Acropolis because the early Republic is key to victory, and switching it to tech 5 would delay this.
- As for Darkclouds request that we eliminate the 1/2 tax in a revolution year, I strongly dislike this idea, I think 1/2 tax helps to balance out the effect of the revolution without hindering it too much (actually when switching from Despotism to Republic 1/2 tax only means that you collect full Despotism taxes for one more turn does it not?). Not sure what it would mean for programming, but most societies are only revolting once anyway, can their tax income be manually calculated for that one turn?
- One more change I would like to see is a combined allied assualt (a la Galactic Overlord). Right now if two societies attack another society, they defender fights first one and then the other. The second attacker gets the benefit of lesser armies if the first wore the defender down. I would like to see the two attackers (assuming they both border the defender) be able to attack in unison, either splitting the defending armies or combining the attacking armies.
I agree that the game does not need wholesale changes, but there are still some areas that need "tweaking".
I would consider GMing the next one if no one else wants to, but the part that I struggle with are the writeups (mine are boring by comparison to other GM's). The math and the rules are not such a huge problem for me (though the game I GM'd had only 5 players, perhaps it would be different with more).
* Sparrowhawk 
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DarkCloud
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of Lists
Jul 2000
time: 05:18
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On Foreign Aid
quote:
Not sure how to limit it though, I too had thought of upping the cost of Wonders, but they are few people building them now, would this become even more of a problem if the cost were increased? How about limiting the number of Wonders that can be built by one player in one turn to prevent someone from running away with the Wonder Race? (it seems that whatever we come up with means more rules where Darkcloud was asking that we simplify the game further |
quote:
The friendship pacts (can't really call them outright alliances since foreign aid is its only apparent tool) make the game go way too quickly in my opinion, either we need to further increase costs etc. to slow the game down again or we could just eliminate foreign aid. |
Well, for starters I wouldn't argue with eliminating foreign aid since it can be a valuable tool for alliances and speeding up the game- however we don't want to too heavily penalize those who don't have strong alliances.
Therefore, one simplifier on foreign aid would be if you could only send one type of foreign aid a turn.
And here is a second idea that wouldn't necessarily simplify things, but it would limit the aid's effectiveness. Since people produce things during a turn and it takes time to send things- perhaps Foreign Aid has to be the second step in a turn- Right after trade? This way the excessive tech-jumping won't 'ruin' the game completely for those without strong alliances.
On Trade
quote:
Another idea I had today was that we could limit trade between two people by making a max of 2/3rds of your caravans with one person. This would mean that if you were at tech 9 you could only send 6 of your caravans to one person the other 3 either don't get sent (which would limit the sender) or get sent to someone else (which would help balance the game and help avoid one player falling behind too far as they would be the recipient of these extra caravans)......but again this is another rule which were trying to avoid.
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Sorry, I think that is way too complicated. I think that trade itself isn't overpowered- people can still trade.
What I noticed that really catapulted people was
1. Foreign Aid
2. Republics
If a soceity can get to republic- they are pretty much unstoppable.
the reasons for this are threefold:
1. Republics get double taxation
2. Republics get double trade income
3. Republics RECEIVE double trade income
Maybe one of the three things should be cut, and maybe it shouldn't- but if you look at the games, you can see that gaining Republic pretty much guarantees success.
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Another complication with trade that I think we should eliminate is the "1" square away with tech 4 "2" squares away thing- I never checked that and it added unnecessary complications.
I also think that two nations being adjacent for foreign aid could be stripped from the game (although that is much easier to check--> but it's still another strain on the GM and players to realize that.)
More on Governments
quote:
As for Darkclouds request that we eliminate the 1/2 tax in a revolution year, I strongly dislike this idea, I think 1/2 tax helps to balance out the effect of the revolution without hindering it too much (actually when switching from Despotism to Republic 1/2 tax only means that you collect full Despotism taxes for one more turn does it not?). Not sure what it would mean for programming, but most societies are only revolting once anyway, can their tax income be manually calculated for that one turn?
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Well, as I state below- maybe this was one issue that just needed more clarification- it can be fixed with programming... and I suppose isn't really that terrible a thing to do manually if necessary or to remember, but the question I stated further below is why I was confused about it.
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Simplification and clarification are needed on some issues... some of my troubles could have been clarified by better explanation, but as stated above, simplification is also needed. Thankfully we're making some progress here, I hope. (And when I was GMing I wrote some clarifications to the master rules on the first page)
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Just wondering on a revolution turn, do you collect taxes AS 1/2 the rate for the new Government? Or as 1/2 the rate for the old one?
On wonders
quote:
- I would like to see the Colleseum and the Tower switched (Colleseum becomes available with tech 1, Tower with tech 2) as the Colleseum seems useless right now, the Tower highly desirable.
- Also I would like to switch the Acropolis with Silk Road, silk road because it expires too soon, Acropolis because the early Republic is key to victory, and switching it to tech 5 would delay this.
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I think I tend to agree with Sparrowhawk's suggestions here.
On War
quote:
One more change I would like to see is a combined allied assualt (a la Galactic Overlord). Right now if two societies attack another society, they defender fights first one and then the other. The second attacker gets the benefit of lesser armies if the first wore the defender down. I would like to see the two attackers (assuming they both border the defender) be able to attack in unison, either splitting the defending armies or combining the attacking armies.
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Though that may be fair, it's very complicated (at least to program). (And it is also somewhat annoying to calculate manually if people's tech levels and army levels differ- and also it's difficult to figure out the casualties correctly, etc.)
How does everyone else feel about this issue?
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Sparrowhawk
quote:
would consider GMing the next one if no one else wants to, but the part that I struggle with are the writeups (mine are boring by comparison to other GM's). The math and the rules are not such a huge problem for me (though the game I GM'd had only 5 players, perhaps it would be different with more). |
Well, I must say that I enjoyed your writeups at least more than mine.  (I was sort of burned out after calculating things and messing with the program to put my writing skills to good use and went with 'short summaries' and minimal flavour.)
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18-12-2004 07:05
We're playing at about a week per turn at the current rate, not acceptable in my opinion.
Attachment: 
That's way too close.
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