03-12-2004 02:04									#91
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With 77 Gold I don't need to resend, everything will be fine.......I think

* Sparrowhawk

	03-12-2004 02:06									#92
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Okay thanks, then it's probably just Vlad I'm waiting on- does anyone know where he's gone?

I sent him a PM?

	03-12-2004 04:27									#93
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You still do not have smiley's gold right, I can't believe that the creator did not mention this.

	03-12-2004 04:58									#94
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quote: the creator

No need to give him a big head!

	03-12-2004 07:27									#95
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Last week of classes before finals here, so this kinda slipped under the radar. Sent.

	03-12-2004 09:22									#96
	Inflate your Upload Space

Fixed Smiley now.

That wouldn't have been a problem if I had seen in the orders that techs were exchanged.

He went from 87 gp to 127.

	03-12-2004 09:23									#97
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks for sending it Vlad.

	03-12-2004 14:16									#98
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Keep it coming

	03-12-2004 19:24									#99
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Fixed Smiley now. That wouldn't have been a problem if I had seen in the orders that techs were exchanged. He went from 87 gp to 127.

Whew, for a second there, I thought I lost you....might we give him time to change the orders in that case?

	03-12-2004 22:17									#100
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Done.

	04-12-2004 04:08									#101
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* Sparrowhawk wonders if Darkcloud is putting his new game automation program through a workout with this turn?

	04-12-2004 08:35									#102
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DAY 4: The First War

And from the war rooms of Emperor-For-Life Jonny there came plans for a battle, a battle to end all battles- after building up his forces, the Emperor sent them against the newly established Republic of the Hawks, seeking to take advantage of their precarious position,m so close to a revolution.

0 AD.

Technology
Architecture 4- Whoha, muxec, Jonny
Geography 5- Whoha, muxec, Jonny
Religion 6- muxec, Kassiopeia, Smiley
Espionage 7- Kassiopeia, Smiley
Industrialization 8- Kassiopeia, Smiley

City Construction
Whoha- D2, D3
Kassiopeia- Kalevala (H11)
Spaced Cowboy- Dallas (I2), Houston (K2), San Antonio (L2), Austin (J4), Waco (J5), Abilene (I4), Sweetwater (H4)
Jonny- Build City at D7 (12), Build City at C8 (15), Build City at D8 (18)
Vlad- Laughs Evilly (H8), You Fail It (J10)
Sparrowhawk- Raven (B9), Eagle (A9), Cardinal (E9), Seagull (A10), Wren (E8)


Armies
Whoha- 1
Smiley- 4
Kassiopeia- 5
Jonny- 6
Vlad- 9

Foreign Aid
Kassiopeia- Tech 6,7,8 to Sparrowhawk
Smiley- Tech 6,7,8 to Spaced Cowboy

Government Changes
Sparrowhawk is now a REPUBLIC!

Wonder Construction
Spaced Cowboy 40- Silk Road
Spaced Cowboy 15- Trojan Horse

Wars
Jonny-Sparrowhawk

In a surprising military action, Emperor-For-Life Jonny sneak attacked Chief Representative Sparrowhawk. However, the Republic of Hawks citizens were able to defeat Jonny's twelve armies in a guerilla tactic as they retreated to their castles and harassed the soldiers from afar.

As the attackers were driven off, they flailed their swords in ineffectual anger and retreated to their nation- a little beaten and a little wiser.

Their technology had been too insufficient to destroy the technologically advanced Republic of Hawks in their high eyries.

Alas. Emperor-For-Life Jonny executed nine of his twelve generals upon hearing of their failure. The other three shifted worriedly, knowing that there would not be a second chance for failure. They had made their nation a laughingstock. And they would pay.

The Republic of the Hawks had too many resources and too many well-connected allies for Emperor-For-Life-Jonny to become complacent.

The Players

Last edited by DarkCloud on 06-12-2004 at 21:51

	04-12-2004 08:36									#103
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Sorry Sparrow, I had to do the trade manually and the war didn't quite work... But also- I was drafted into seeing a play, etc.

	04-12-2004 09:46									#104
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I must admit, even I am amazed at the outcome of that battle, I thought I would be fine as long as I wasn't attacked, and I crossed my fingers that I wouldn't be attacked.

I actually double checked Darkclouds math on the battle, and he is quite correct even though I had no armies defending, I was able to defend my cities from Jonny's attack with higher technology alone .

Perhaps that should be changed for next game, but I am more then happy to take advantage of it this game.

Tread wisely my friend Jonny, for though the Coven of Hawks remember an ancestor of yours who was an ally of the Hawks who was also both wise and strong, we will not hesitate to destroy he who presents himself as our enemy.

* Sparrowhawk

	04-12-2004 10:12									#105
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I'm pretty certain I calculated the income correct for Sparrow's republic and everything else, but you might want to doublecheck...

Silk Road doesn't implement until next turn.

	04-12-2004 10:14									#106
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Day 4: The First War

Trade
Whoha (3)---> Jonny (9 gp/27 gp)
muxec (3)---> Spaced Cowboy (21 gp/45 gp)
Jonny (3)---> Whoha (9 gp/27 gp)
Smiley (5)--> Spaced Cowboy (75 gp/125 gp)
Vlad (3)--> Kassiopeia (21 gp/45 gp)
Spaced Cowboy (5)--> Smiley (75 gp/125 gp)
Kassiopeia (5)--> Sparrowhawk (75 gp/125 gp)

Wonders
Tower of Babel -- Spaced Cowboy (J3) [Dude Ranch]
Colosseum- Spaced Cowboy (I3) [Cowtown]
Trojan Horse- Spaced Cowboy (J4) [Austin]
Acropolis- Sparrowhawk (C9) [Falcon]
Silk Road- Spaced Cowboy (J3) [San Antonio]

Technology
#6 Religion (20)
#7 Espionage (39)
#8 Industrialization (63)
#9 Representative Government (136)

code:

 
    
    
 
      
Society
 
      
Cities
 
      
Tech
 
      
Army
 
      
SS Parts
 
      
Nukes
 
      
SDI
 
      
Gold
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Muxec
 
      
3
 
      
6
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
163
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Whoha
 
      
5
 
      
5
 
      
7
 
      
0
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
209
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
 Smiley
 
      
4
 
      
8
 
      
4
 
      
0
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
487
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Spaced Cowboy
 
      
10
 
      
8
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
474
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Vlad Antlerkov
 
      
5
 
      
5
 
      
9
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
0
 
      
217
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Jonny
 
      
6
 
      
5
 
      
12
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
0
 
      
148
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Sparrowhawk
 
      
7
 
      
8
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
407
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Kassiopeia
 
      
6
 
      
8
 
      
5
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
516
 
    
 

   

Last edited by DarkCloud on 06-12-2004 at 21:52

	04-12-2004 10:16									#107
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

*And now Sparrowhawk has more gold than anyone else

---

map.

Attachment: society6-5.gif
This has been downloaded 60 time(s).

	04-12-2004 10:29									#108
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I didn't check anyone else's gold, but I think I should have 405.

[(Cities 7 X Tech 8) X (10 Republic)] / 2 (revolution turn) = 280
+ Trade Income from other Societies 125 = 405

* Sparrowhawk

	04-12-2004 10:55									#109
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Not sure I understand the numbers in this section:

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Trade Whoha (3)---> Jonny (9 gp/27 gp) muxec (3)---> Spaced Cowboy (21 gp/45 gp) Jonny (3)---> Whoha (9 gp/27 gp) Smiley (5)--> Spaced Cowboy (75 gp/125 gp) Vlad (3)--> Kassiopeia (21 gp/45 gp) Spaced Cowboy (5)--> Smiley (75 gp/125 gp) Kassiopeia (5)--> Sparrowhawk (75 gp/125 gp)

I am guessing that the first number is the number of caravans , the second number is the Cost of the same caravans and the third number is revenue, but I am not sure about any of the "Cost" numbers if that is what they are.

For instance, Whoha and Jonny in the first line....they both had tech 3, so the cost should have been (3+3)*3=18. The revenue would be as calculated (3*3)*3=27.

I think it is the same for all of them, but that has me wondering is the second number is actually Cost or something else entirely???

	04-12-2004 20:41									#110
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ditto,

you gave me too much this time. Spent all my gold last turn so for the cities it is:

6cities*8tech*5multiplier=240
tower of babel = 8^2 = 64
trade from smiley = 125
trade from Muxec = 45

total = 474

Note: I thought it was worse until I saw the trade from Muxec.

	04-12-2004 20:57									#111
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Sent.

	06-12-2004 02:25									#112
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Another question.......Jonny's chart shows he has 3 cities and tech 5, but the map shows 6 cities. The turn summary also seems to indicate 6 cities, and you do not show any new tech development for Jonny. I am assuming he has 6 cities and is at tech 3, but it would help if you could clarify (Jonny or Darkcloud).

Thanks,
Sparrowhawk

Edit: Orders sent on the assumption that I have 407 gold at the start (405 as calculated above plus 2 gold left over from last turn)

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 06-12-2004 at 02:59

	06-12-2004 10:41									#113
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Orders sent, hopefully not last this time.

	06-12-2004 21:53									#114
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quote: For instance, Whoha and Jonny in the first line....they both had tech 3, so the cost should have been (3+3)*3=18. The revenue would be as calculated (3*3)*3=27. I think it is the same for all of them, but that has me wondering is the second number is actually Cost or something else entirely???

The thrid number is the revenue for the trading partner...

Maybe I misunderstood the rules- I thought that the trader has to pay the cost, therefor only receives 9gp... and the receiver gets the full benefit... 27 gp.

quote: I am guessing that the first number is the number of caravans , the second number is the Cost of the same caravans and the third number is revenue, but I am not sure about any of the "Cost" numbers if that is what they are.

That's wrong. First number is the # of caravans, 2nd is the benefit to the sender, 3rd is the benefit to the receiver.

---
Also fixed Jonny's gold... i had written 200, but on recalculation, it's 148.
-
i had no idea about the revolution rule and will fix that.

-

	06-12-2004 23:40									#115
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud The thrid number is the revenue for the trading partner... Maybe I misunderstood the rules- I thought that the trader has to pay the cost, therefor only receives 9gp... and the receiver gets the full benefit... 27 gp. That's wrong. First number is the # of caravans, 2nd is the benefit to the sender, 3rd is the benefit to the receiver. -

Nope, you understood the rules just fine, I just didn't understand your summary, now that I know what the numbers stand for, it all makes perfect sense to me (and in hindsight, I should have been able to figure it out now that you have explained it, it seems obvious ).

-------------------------

As for the Revolution discussion, it cause some confusion in the game I gm'd (IV) as that was the first time we allowed something during a revolution turn. In previous games you only collected Tax, nothing else (I think...... Smiley or someone can correct me here), but in the IV game, we allowed one phase of production as well, which seemed too much if the person was also allowed to collect full tax, so it was adjusted to either full taxation and nothing else, or one phase of production and 1/2 tax (as if the person didn't collect any tax they would be unable to do anything on the following turn.

Hopefully Spaced can read this and explain if he did the same in the last game (V) as it probably has never been written into the ruleset.

* Sparrowhawk

	06-12-2004 23:53									#116
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No, I went with 1/2 tax and one phase. Never heard of the whole tax and no phase....are you sure you're not trying to make up rules as we go along...again?

	07-12-2004 00:03									#117
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Nope.......not yet but if you would like me to I would be happy to make up some more to make this a little more confusing

Edited to add a link to Society IV and the discussion of Revolutions:
Here is a link to game IV where the topic of Revolutions was discussed between Smiley and I (no one else offered an opinion on the topic).

Basically this was just before the first revolution (Gamecube) and from his revolution and on to the end of the game I allowed either one phase + half taxation or full taxation (the "one phase" becomes the other half of the taxation).

Not sure if this helps any or not, but this is what I did anyhow.

* Sparrowhawk

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 07-12-2004 at 06:56

	08-12-2004 10:26									#118
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BUMP.......

and judging by the posts since the Turn summary, only Whoha, Vlad Antlerkov and I have our orders in so far, but I am guessing that there are more in then that??

Are we waiting on one or more of the players (Smiley, Muxec, Spaced, Kassiopeia or Jonny) or on Darkcloud to do the next update? (and not criticizing either way, this game takes a while, just trying to get a feel for where we are at.

* Sparrowhawk

	08-12-2004 10:29									#119
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You're probably waiting for me. It'll take a few hours at least.

	08-12-2004 11:01									#120
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Originally revolutions were complete nil turns, where one didn't collect taxes and couldn't build anything. (They still could recieve trade).

This made the cost of Revolution prohibitively high, and most players either 1) built the Acropolis, which allowed at the time change to Republic without nil turn; 2) Changed to monarchy early and stayed there to the end; or 3) Stayed in Despotism until Republic was available.

The current system offers better balance between the Despotism-->Republic vs. the Despotism-->Monarchy-->Republic routes. How early alliances figure into this equation is a whole different story that we'll find out in the course of this game.

Sent, by the way.