19-11-2004 10:50									#61
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Canadian conservatives would sit middle of the road in the US, by and large. Our left would be on the left of the Democrats. Some of our left would make the left of the Democrats look like little Reagans.

	19-11-2004 10:54									#62
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn No I don't... but for that matter the majority of American conservatives are not religious idealogues either.

Why did you propose Ben as your example of a Canadian conservative then?

	19-11-2004 10:57									#63
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Anywhere near Cayuga?

Cayuga is south of Brantford, closer to the Mohawk reserve.

The area I worked was St Jacobs/Elmira (north of Kitchener/Waterloo), east to Guelph, west to London. The Mennonites are spreadout further than this, but the largest concentration can be found there.

If you live in Waterloo it is not an uncommon site to see horse and buggy/carriage on an uptown street among the traffic.

	19-11-2004 10:58									#64
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Why Cayuga? Fast cars?

	19-11-2004 11:06									#65
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That's where my grandfather was born. His family was Mennonite. About all he showed of that background was his love for concorde grapes.

	19-11-2004 11:09									#66
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Oh, and he was a working fool. He retired from the farm at around 70 when he couldn't work harder and do more than the youngsters anymore.

	19-11-2004 11:09									#67
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why did you propose Ben as your example of a Canadian conservative then?

Because he's conservative. It would be a far cry to call him a fundy.

	19-11-2004 11:09									#68
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Good jelly, bad wine.

	19-11-2004 11:15									#69
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Because he's conservative. It would be a far cry to call him a fundy.

I takeit you've never talked to Ben

	19-11-2004 11:26									#70
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Because he's conservative. It would be a far cry to call him a fundy.

He's also by no means representative.

Gay marriage is not a big deal for most Canadians, including many conservatives, as is evidenced one by one as the provinces and feds fail to show up to argue against it in provincial courts. Some of those provinces had Conservative governments (I would think, but you could look it up). It is backdoor reform that all major parties accept.

No Conservative has introduced any legislation to do with abortion for a very long time. Liberals on the other hand...

I don't think Ben is very representative of the conservative segment of Canada, or are there other issues that make you think of him when you think of conservatives in Canada?

For what it's worth, it would be very hard to find the representative of conservatism in Canada. It's a hodge-podge of people of different views, usually united by a need to present the country with an alternative to the Liberals to form governments.

	19-11-2004 11:27									#71
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Oh, and he was a working fool. He retired from the farm at around 70 when he couldn't work harder and do more than the youngsters anymore.

Pride and work ethic. Very important to one of his stock.

Who ended up with the farm? It's prime farmland around there.

Oh, and Cayuga has an auto racetrack these days...

	19-11-2004 11:31									#72
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither For what it's worth, it would be very hard to find the representative of conservatism in Canada. It's a hodge-podge of people of different views, usually united by a need to present the country with an alternative to the Liberals to form governments.

That's for sure. It is a diverse group that sometimes has trouble being effective.

I'm a fiscal conservative but by no means a social conservative. In total I will take the Conservatives over the alternative and fight them on issues I feel strongly enough about. Fortunately this incarnation of the party seems to have little interest in social conservative policy and my disputes are few thus far.

	19-11-2004 11:44									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil Pride and work ethic. Very important to one of his stock. Who ended up with the farm? It's prime farmland around there. Oh, and Cayuga has an auto racetrack these days...

He came West around 1910 and homesteaded in Central Alberta, around Hardisty. He sold the farm to my uncle, who later went to work in the oil patch and sold the farm land to another family from the area. The parcel with the house on it was subbed off and stayed with him and his wife until they moved into a town much later.

That reminds me, I have to keep track of when a certain piece of land comes on the market.

	19-11-2004 11:54									#74
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The one your grandad owned? Just stop by talk to the people and give them your business card.

	19-11-2004 12:00									#75
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Or I could ask my uncle to keep an eye out. Cheaper if the seller doesn't know there is a waiting buyer. That would be my grandmother's Scottish side speaking.

	19-11-2004 12:00									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin How so? I've never considered the truth snobbish. Edit: This is for Ned.

You said this:

"90% of the mass media is culturally in the middle but we have a few backwards areas of the country where people never left the 19th century ."

	19-11-2004 12:02									#77
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The community faces many pressures these days. The cities are constantly encroaching and there is no new land being created. It is difficult to pass down to all children a viable piece of property and as you know they have large families. The Mennonites are well known to always be on the look out for available property (keep a close eye on your sale date ).

They also have the obvious gene pool problem. Their numbers are too small in any one area and as I understand it there is a rotation of women with other like communities on occasion (Ben would probably be a better source on this score however). There are old order communities out west as you are no doubt aware.

I find them a good people despite my obvious religious differences (topic only came up once when I discussed the different restrictions they seem to live by with a Mennonite - ie some will drive a car but others won't). They live a life I wouldn't want but on the whole it works for them. Community and family are everything and when contrasted with the neighbouring cities it sure shows.

Maybe my experiences make it easier for me to 'tolerate' Ben than many of the posters here. I wasn't aware of his particular religious bent before...

	19-11-2004 12:04									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil I was thinking a similar thing w/o so much laughter... This is why I favour allowing FOX to be seen on cable here. I welcome even more diversity. Ned, I am familiar with FOXNews through the use of an 'illegal' dish.

Sorry to hear that freedom of speech is considered illegal in Canada. One most critical aspects of freedom of speech is a right to read what you want to read. This right to read includes the right, in my opinion, to watch which ever news channel you can receive without violating copyright laws.

	19-11-2004 12:07									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai It's not a question of whether there are conservatives, it's whether Canadians will buy into the vile and lies spewed by Fox. Canadian conservatives tend to be more civilised than what the Republicans have become.

Bravo, Tingkai. You sound just like a bigot.

	19-11-2004 12:09									#80
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn True, but its more of the same difference between Northern and Southern Republicans in the US. The point is southerners are monkeys and will believe anything. Friendly as hell though... as long as your not black or queer

I just can't get over bigotry and snobbery of you Canadiens.

	19-11-2004 12:10									#81
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It wasn't a copyright issue but yeah, I agree free speech is desirable. Hence my agreement with the CRTC in their decision.

Fix your FCC before you pass judgement on our quality of free speech.

	19-11-2004 12:12									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I just can't get over bigotry and snobbery of you Canadiens.

It's a sport in some quarters.

btw, wasn't there an american or two on these boards that wanted to come live among us?

	19-11-2004 12:13									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I just can't get over bigotry and snobbery of you Canadiens.

Uhhmm, he's a Yank who lives in Ottawa and flies the Red Leaf.

	19-11-2004 12:17									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Bravo, Tingkai. You sound just like a bigot.

You need to get a dictionary.

	19-11-2004 12:23									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I just can't get over bigotry and snobbery of you Canadiens.

Oh it just keeps getting better and better.

Here's the thing Ned. Compared to American politics, Canadian politicians treat each other respect. In the last election, the battle was largely over policies (not completely, but largely) not mud-slinging.

The worst thing the Conservatives ever did was issue one stupid press release. The worst for the NDP was one comment from Layton. The Liberals played down in the dirt, but nothing compared to what American politicians do.

What you take as normal would be considered beyond the pale in Canada.

	19-11-2004 12:34									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil The community faces many pressures these days. The cities are constantly encroaching and there is no new land being created. It is difficult to pass down to all children a viable piece of property and as you know they have large families. The Mennonites are well known to always be on the look out for available property (keep a close eye on your sale date ). They also have the obvious gene pool problem. Their numbers are too small in any one area and as I understand it there is a rotation of women with other like communities on occasion (Ben would probably be a better source on this score however). There are old order communities out west as you are no doubt aware. I find them a good people despite my obvious religious differences (topic only came up once when I discussed the different restrictions they seem to live by with a Mennonite - ie some will drive a car but others won't). They live a life I wouldn't want but on the whole it works for them. Community and family are everything and when contrasted with the neighbouring cities it sure shows. Maybe my experiences make it easier for me to 'tolerate' Ben than many of the posters here. I wasn't aware of his particular religious bent before...

He went very nonobserving when he came out West. There wasn't a Mennonite community around where he settled, other than another fellow who came from the same area of Ontario. That person is probably why he settled there.

They all pitched in along with everyone else in the small municipal district to make sure that everyone made it, so the commitment to community was certainly there, but it was there among everyone in that area at that time as well, whether Swedish Lutheran or British Protestant (a couple of families I can recall).

He stayed religious, but kept it to himself. He also took up smoking and whiskey, which would have been frowned upon. I still remember the Christmas I got socks, chocolates, cigaretttes, and a Texas mickey of rum. He got a teddy bear, a couple colouring books, and a lot of Match Box toys. I am his namesake and somehow the gifts got switched by Santa. Boy was I some upset when to forced to do a gift exchange. Somehow me as a three year old had a fondness for cigarettes and whiskey. Wild, wild women came later.

The net result was that the environment my mother came from and from where I come from is fairly tolerant as well. I too can understand Ben, if I don't always agree with him.

	19-11-2004 12:39									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil It wasn't a copyright issue but yeah, I agree free speech is desirable. Hence my agreement with the CRTC in their decision. Fix your FCC before you pass judgement on our quality of free speech.

Agreed.

	19-11-2004 12:48									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Oh it just keeps getting better and better. Here's the thing Ned. Compared to American politics, Canadian politicians treat each other respect. In the last election, the battle was largely over policies (not completely, but largely) not mud-slinging. The worst thing the Conservatives ever did was issue one stupid press release. The worst for the NDP was one comment from Layton. The Liberals played down in the dirt, but nothing compared to what American politicians do. What you take as normal would be considered beyond the pale in Canada.

Tingkai, the most distinguishing factor in the US election was the vile hatred spewed against Bush by virtually everyone on the left. Bush, in contrast, praised Kerry on a personal level and kept his disagreements with Kerry on a high plane by contrast.

And yet, what do we see here? Continuing attacks on Republicans and Fox News for spewing out vile lies when the truth is that it was the Democrats who were lying constantly (see Michael Moore for example) and who were vile beyond all measure of civility.

	19-11-2004 13:01									#89
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I think the enemies of Kerry dished out a bit of dirt themselves.

	19-11-2004 13:03									#90
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I think the enemies of Kerry dished out a bit of dirt themselves.

The Swift Boat folks, yes. But not the Republican Party and not Bush.

Contrast that with the vile Terry McCauliff.