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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There aren't significantly more people in 2004 than in 2000. More people just voted. |
281 Million vs. 294 million, an increase of about 4.6%
That's not insignificant, though there were a lot more people voting percentage-wise too.
-Drachasor
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Doesn't make his point any less stupid. |
What it means, Kuci, is that alot of people voted for Kerry, regardless of the population. Thats the only point.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
How often does it happen that someone gets the nomination a second time after losing the first time out? |
Nixon was the last to do so, disregarding failed primary bids. Before him, Stevenson. It used to be perfectly possible.
I think, had Gore played his cards right, he would have been able to snag the nod this year. After all, many Dems still think of him as the true winner in 2000.
It will be harder for Kerry, though, since Dems moreso than Repubs tend to want to forget their losers as quick as possible. Carter, Mondale and Dukakis weren't remembered fondly by the party.
I think the key to the 57 million vote thing is that over 57 million people voted for a boring placeholder like Kerry who was portrayed by the right as an ultraliberal Massachusetts tax-and-spend weenie. If such a perceived candidate can come so close, it speaks volumes about the weakness of Bush as an incumbent.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Ya know, it was closer in PA then in OH, so why not have a recount here? Anyway, it is extraordinarily unlikely anything will change.
As far as 2008 goes, the biggest obstacle in the way of Kerry or any other Dem who would like to be President is Hillary Clinton. Her fundraising skill and popularity among the Democratic party makes her the woman to beat for the Dem nomination. |
It has nothing to do with the fact that it was close, its the fact that Bush leads by 136,000 while there are still almost 250,000 ballots yet to be counted. Compare that with PA where only about 60,000 prov. ballots were cast. A PA recount would be useless.
And extrodinarliy unlikely isn't accurate at all. I'd put it at about 50/50 at this point. Look at the numbers.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by civman2000
I hate Bush as much as anyone, but I think it's hypocritical to manipulate the Electoral College to try to beat his popular majority. I think that, not any questions of partisan bias or whatever, is the biggest problem here. |
Bush Vs. Gore 2000 proved that point is irrelevant. And it wouldn't be "manipulating" the vote, thats how our voting system works. Its to prevent "tyranny of the majority", which just happens to work in our favor now.
quote:
Kerry lost, let it go. |
No. Bush won't steal another election.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by civman2000
The problem is, I (and most educated Democrats I know) think the 2000 election and the entire Electoral College is flawed and illegitimate. From our perspective, then, trying to win the Electoral College against the will of the popular vote is hypocritical and generally just plain wrong. |
So you'd rather let Bush win than do the same thing he did to us in 2000? Thats fine, but I disagree. This is how the system works. The electoral college is there for a reason, and that reason is to prevent certain majority groups from deciding the outcome of every election. The aim of US elections is not to win the most popular votes, its to win the most electoral votes. Thats just how it works.
We can try to change the system all we want, but taking the moral highground while costing yourself a victory is just plain stupid. Did Bush do that in 2000, no. Did he win, yes.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So? To compare the total number of voters for Kerry to previous elections is meaningless. |
You really must enjoy splitting hairs for no reason, don't you?
I'll recap the context of my statement for you, since you clearly didn't read it. MrMitchel and I were discussing whether or not Kerry would fair well in a 2008 primary. I said he would and cited the fact that his record number of votes (2nd highest in American history), as well as record proportions of the American population turning out to vote for him are a couple of reasons to believe that people just might vote for him again. This isn't and has never been an arithematical argument.
Is there a problem?
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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A bit on undervotes:
quote:
Ohio, whose 20 electoral votes were based on a margin of 2 percent in the vote, has other problems tonight. The state reports 92,000 presidential votes did not count. Ranging from votes improperly cast to votes improperly counted. And in Cuyahoga County, that is greater Cleveland, the official records of 29 different voting precincts show more votes than registered voters to a total of 93,000 extra votes in that county alone. |
quote:
As an example, in Fairview Park, 12 miles west of Cleveland, 13,342 voters were registered. 18,472 votes were cast. None of this even addresses the story we told you about last week in the town of Gahanna outside Columbus, Ohio. There in a district with just 800 voters, a voting machine added 3,893 votes to Mr. Bush‘s total. |
http://reprints.msnbc.com/id/6442857/
Edit: And this is MSNBC people, not moveon.org or anything like that.
Edit: This is why a recount is so important. These voting irregularities will only be rectified in an official recount.
Edit: Huge "swaths of red" my ass. This is a more accurate representation. We are a purple nation, truly divided.
source
Last edited by JimmyCracksCorn on 21-11-2004 at 20:38
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
First off, undervoted ballots don't count, and there aren't enough provisional ballots to likely make a difference. |
Undervotes are votes that didn't get counted, or that went to the wrong person. Hence what a recount sets out to resolve.
And that makes 250,000 votes up in the air. That could certainly make a difference.
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Lincoln
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At the risk of infringing on a slogan that may be copywrited I should say that Bush has the moral authority to insist on a recount because he won the popular vote...
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Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
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21-11-2004 07:52
at thread.
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