 |
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
At the risk of infringing on a slogan that may be copywrited I should say that Bush has the moral authority to insist on a recount because he won the popular vote... |
Then let him, although I'd think that would be the last thing he'd want.
Shi:
Read here about undervotes. They're real and they will be counted.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6368819/#041118a
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sava
smartest thing said in this entire thread... |
What happened to you Sava? You used to care about these things...
But its all good. Because the vote will be counted regardless of do-nothing democratics.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Friday, November 19, 2004
Summary of provisional ballots count - UPDATED 11/19/04
Current % of provisionals certified (of counties reported):
74%
Current "additional" vote count:
Bush +6,202
Kerry + 4,084
Where in that link does it say Undervotes will be counted?
Give it up, Kerry conceded for a reason. This election is over. |
Thats still the initial count. Undervotes only become an issue in a recount. Do you understand what a recount is?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
This isn't just about provisional ballots, if it were there'd be no need for a recount. Provisional ballots are counted regardless of a recount or not. The recount is for these 93,000 undervotes. It doesn't say this outright in that link because any doofus knows thats the point of any recount.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
A historical example of undervotes:
quote:
The Gore team subsequently filed four more suits on other legal issues: all four were struck down by lower courts, but the Florida Supreme Court reversed the decision in the last case, Gore v. Harris, on December 9, stating that Harris could not halt the recount of potential undervotes in the targeted counties. The Bush team filed for certiorari to the U.S. Supreme Court on the basis that the Florida court's opinion was contrary to the U.S. Constitution. |
In Florida 2000, Gore lost because a court order halted the count of undervotes. Thats why every media sponsered unofficial recount has found Gore to be the winner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Yes, but in your scenario Kerry needs both the Provisional and Undervotes by a large margin, and in the provisional sphere he isn't getting it. |
Well I don't know where that came from that you quoted, but every estimate I've seen has said that 81% of the provisional ballots were valid. And why do you discount Kerry getting most of them? He may very well not get many, but in 2000 Gore got around 90% of them in Ohio. History often repeats itself, more or less.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ramo
|
 |
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:18
|
|
quote:
Friday, November 19, 2004
Summary of provisional ballots count - UPDATED 11/19/04
Current % of provisionals certified (of counties reported):
74%
Current "additional" vote count:
Bush +6,202
Kerry + 4,084 |
Look at those numbers. Only small counties have reported in with their results. One would expect small counties to go heavily for Bush. In fact, if you look at county-by-county numbers, Kerry is typically doing better than in the general results (especially in the less pro-Bush counties). Of all the counties that have reported in their results, Kerry hadn't won a single one in the general. The closest is Clark County where he lost by 2% in the general, and he's winning by 8% among provisionals.
If this trend holds, Kerry will do remarkably better than the general results in the lop-sided pro-Kerry counties, where most of the provisional ballots are, and Kerry will increase his margin fairly significantly. For instance, Cuyahoga County, which Kerry won 2-1, which hasn't reported in yet, about 16,500 provisionals are estimated to be valid (of 24,788).
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=13&;ID=192962&r=0&external=&newCookie=yes&userID=49783
As for the undervotes, they'll be counted in the recount.
With the possibility of fraud, the election is definitely not over, not by a longshot.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
mrmitchell
|
|
Oh, and I forgot to mention that e-voting needs to be dumped. Regardless of who won in real totals and in e-totals. It needs to be dumped on principle.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell
Oh, and I forgot to mention that e-voting needs to be dumped. Regardless of who won in real totals and in e-totals. It needs to be dumped on principle. |
I agree.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"
As for the undervotes, they'll be counted in the recount."
Source? |
Shi: Thats what a recount is. Think of an undervote as a mistake in the counting process the first time around. When you recount, hopefully, you catch those mistakes.
Evidence of these kinds of mistakes are counties where 600 people were registered to vote, yet one candidate got 14,000 votes from it.
An undervote isn't a particular kind of ballot.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It depends on what Ohio's laws are. In Florida, the intention of the voter is what determines the count of an under or over vote. If Ohio law says they have to be clearly marked, undervotes might not be counted, but overvotes would have to be. It all depends on the relevent law. |
From what I gather, Ohio will have a really tough time arguing that the undervotes can't be counted (if they chose to argue it) since Ohio laws are less clearly defined than Florida's. They will actually have an especially tough time arguing against it because of what happened in Florida.
I'd bet on them counting this time around.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
I can't find the link, but there's a single statewide standard in Ohio for counting undervotes: if 0 or 1 corners remain, the vote's counted, and if 2 or 3 corners remain, the vote's not counted. |
That sounds about right. Any word on what most of these ballots look like?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
A bit on undervotes:
quote:
Ohio, whose 20 electoral votes were based on a margin of 2 percent in the vote, has other problems tonight. The state reports 92,000 presidential votes did not count. Ranging from votes improperly cast to votes improperly counted. And in Cuyahoga County, that is greater Cleveland, the official records of 29 different voting precincts show more votes than registered voters to a total of 93,000 extra votes in that county alone. |
quote:
As an example, in Fairview Park, 12 miles west of Cleveland, 13,342 voters were registered. 18,472 votes were cast. None of this even addresses the story we told you about last week in the town of Gahanna outside Columbus, Ohio. There in a district with just 800 voters, a voting machine added 3,893 votes to Mr. Bush‘s total. |
http://reprints.msnbc.com/id/6442857/
Edit: And this is MSNBC people, not moveon.org or anything like that.
Edit: This is why a recount is so important. These voting irregularities will only be rectified in an official recount.
Edit: Huge "swaths of red" my ass. This is a more accurate representation. We are a purple nation, truly divided.
source |
Doesn't anyone realize how absolutely insane this is? My god, the number of registered voters is going to be a lot more than the number of actual votes. For one, 100% of the actual registered voters present never vote. For another, the registered voter lists for an area always have people that haven't been around for at least 4 years and in some cases more (in Ohio, IIRC there was a messup in 2000 where they lost the dates on registrations, so it might be as long as 8 years). Hence it is highly suspicious to even have as many votes as registered voters, and we are seeing cases of many more.
Very disturbing.
And can anyone give me a case where there were extra votes in excess of 1000 anywhere that were all for Kerry? It's been happening the other only, as far as I know.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
And can anyone give me a case where there were extra votes in excess of 1000 anywhere that were all for Kerry? It's been happening the other only, as far as I know.
-Drachasor |
Nope, not that I know of. And I'm sure the Bush cronies would let us know if there was.
The fact that the trend is towards giving Bush extra votes, and giving Kerry in some instances less... combined with the provisional ballots and other under/over votes is whats going to make this recount very, very interesting.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Actually, the Cuyahoga County results have been explained. What happened is that the county-wide results included absentee ballots, while the precinct results didn't (since they would have to be sorted). |
I think I heard this. Whats the date on this update?
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.
Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
21-11-2004 21:25
|