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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
Good going there. 
Nobody will sell you Nationalism, except for 3rd trier techs at the very least. The AI values this tech too much, so don't bother. Researching is not an option, as it only stalls you from the really juicy targets (Industrialization, Scientific Method, Replaceable Parts). Forget Nationalism, except if headed for Communism for a Domination win. Let the AI research it, while you sell them the mandatory techs one by one. 
You should have seen the situation I saw... I did set up the Worker-pumps, and they only managed to help so much during my time. I didn't make Workers in other cities, because we have little enough growth already. It seemed like a waste to take citizens out. |
My concern is that we need to do SOME military conquest here. Modo, you may be a builder but I'm not, at least as of late. (In Civ2 i never fought a war until after tanks were available ... ironic isn't it?) In AU Mod, unless you're waiting for Tanks, you NEED nationalism to have offensive ability. (Of course, that's most of my problem with AU mod - I have little problem with Cavalry where they are. I'd rather cheapen musketeers rather than moving them. But that's another day.) We're going to be defeated IMO if we play this as a builder.
But that's just my opinion.  I'm aware that nationalism is overvalued - I suspect we'll end up getting it for one of the next two or three techs.
Worker-wise, I was mostly kidding. Though I am willing to mass-build workers (as should be obvious from my play) in order to mass railroad; the +1 food/shield is worth it to me, you quickly recapture the citizens with the extra 10 or whatever food you can manage.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369
My concern is that we need to do SOME military conquest here. Modo, you may be a builder but I'm not, at least as of late. We're going to be defeated IMO if we play this as a builder. |
Once a tech lead is there, the AI is contained (spaceship win without worries). Once we have Replaceable Parts, we can conquer any place we need (Infantry + Artillery + Cavalry are deadly in human hands). Once we have Tanks, we can conquer everything easily (just keep rolling them). We are close enough to the first thing, so I'm not worried. As to the fun factor, though... well... 
quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369 But that's just my opinion. I'm aware that nationalism is overvalued - I suspect we'll end up getting it for one of the next two or three techs. |
The AI has Nationalism, and Industrialization on us. This means we're still not completely out of the hole. Diverting research when not in a firm tech lead can be suicidal IMO. Remember we've got at least one KAI developing on the other continent, and their treasuries not completely drained yet.
quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369
Worker-wise, I was mostly kidding. Though I am willing to mass-build workers (as should be obvious from my play) in order to mass railroad; the +1 food/shield is worth it to me, you quickly recapture the citizens with the extra 10 or whatever food you can manage. |
Well, I wasn't. I usually try to get the Worker numbers up before Railroads, but this terrain just wouldn't work this way. Did the best I could, though.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369
I'm not sure we ARE going to make it to spaceship before the AI does. I think we need to take out one civ - inca, for example - before we are comfortable; or else help one of the civs vs. spain out a lot. I of course am a warmonger so I'd rather take out inca ... |
Actually, taking more territory isn't as important as taking the cash out of AI pockets - for good. Yes, it's faster research, but the same can be achieved by finishing infrastructure, and growing the cities we have. And we're close to what corruption will allow anyway.
I would be inclined to do conquest only against specific targets - the most advanced civs that could actually make a run for the spaceship. Basically, raze their core cities, cutting their throats, so to speak.Then again, it's more fun to let the blood flow. Wars ain't so tendious, if others take over every now and then.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
if you start too early do you have the units to sustain a war?
how about the economy to do such?
just asking |
It depends. The higher the difficulty level, the more suicidal a war without good preparation becomes. If you have enough productive cities, and enough units at hand, you should win. Now "enough" depends very much on your builder skills, the AI you're facing, the terrain, the difficulty level, the... (the list is long  ). Lots of units without building capacity, or lots of production centres with few units can win too.
By the way, I got the joke, so don't worry. I'm just not smiling very often.
Snoopy, you are right, for the very reason I pointed out here. On Demigod, just going headlong into a war can kill you very fast. So I learned not to. Will be playing AU 506 on Emperor for that very reason.
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mart7x5
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1460
Summeria and Spain sign mutual protection pact.
Hittities start Universal Suffrage.
1480
French destroy Japanese.
1490
Spanish start Theory of Evolution
1495
Inca start Theory of Evolution
French start Theory of Evolution
1500
Adrianople just started Theory of Evolution. It has +78 shields - high chance of success.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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Darn it! I knew I had forgotten something. Sorry guys, I'm on it now. 
1505 AD (turn 291)
- Check diplo status. Ouch. If we don't get Theory of Evolution, we're toast.
- Switching science back on. Steel in 8 turns, Theory of Evolution in 8 turns. This gives 3 techs on the same turn - no AI can cope with that research speed.
- Turn off some useless builds. (Factory in 40 turns? C'm on.)
- Workers need to Railorad flat land first. Especially if it's Mined Grassland...
- Two AIs have Replaceable Parts. I check the Inca - they have Infantry in cities. Invading with anything less than Infantry, Cavalry, and a s#itload of Artillery, would be suicidal. So I won't, unless forced to.
- We are in Republic, so I can move the units around freely. Border towns get 3 Muskets each. All other units are brought to one place for easier control. We have a total of just above 60 offensive units, including Cannons.
- I find 2 Muskets and a Settler on the other continent. I put them back on the Caravel, and they move to the Wines.
- Unit production set to Heavy Cavalry, and Cannons.
1515 AD
- The Hitties put a city near the Wines, but not near enough. I put Fort Hope on the last remaining tile - directly on the Wines.
- Two big hopes: The Inca should go to war with Spain, and France should go to war with the Iroquis.
1525 AD
- Finished Railroading the Grasslands near our capital. You know, the land that is most productive in the whole empire.
- Finished connecting the most important cities.
- The Iroquis build the Universal Suffrage.
- And Babylon finishes Theory of Evolution. 3 turns too soon.
1530 AD
- Theory of Evolution is changed into Battlefield Medicine. Luckily, without loss of Shields.
- The AI has Steel now, presumably from Theory of Gravity. 1 turn before we'd have gotten it.
- We have 5 cities with Factories, set to produce units as fast as possible (Riflemen, and Heavy Cavalry). Next turn, we go to war.
There are 62 units in Taormina. Unfortunately, over half of them is are Medieval Infantry.
 Attachment: succession byzantines 1530 ad.jpg
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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1535 AD
- Steel researched, and Replaceable Parts started. Not good, but I certainly won't buy techs from the AI and give them even more gold.
- The Babylonians landed 2 Med Infs, and 2 Heavy Cavalry near Constantinople. I wonder why, so I ask them to leave. They declare war. War on the Inca delayed by 1 turn, because it will need all available units.
- 5 Muskets upgraded to Riflemen in cities bordering the Inca. Guess why.
- We have two empty Armies now, from the Military Academy. I put Heavy Cavalry in them. Guess why.
- I ask America for an Alliance against the Babylonians.
- I dismiss the Babylonian usurpers.
- Battlefield Medicine ready in a turn. By accident, the timing is perfect.
1540 AD
- Adrianople is brought to size 17, and produces exactly 90spt now. This happens to be the number needed to make a Heavy Cavalry each turn.
- WAR is declared on the Inca.
- El-Amarna falls. Almost no losses.
- Nasca falls. Heavy losses.
- Miami falls. No losses.
- Dispatching some Incan units, that happened to si too close to our border. Doing this, an Elite Med Inf produces a MGL.
- Now it's "only" one big front, that will soon be swarming with Incan Cavalry, Infantry, and what not.
- I send many Med Infs toward Heliopolis.
1545 AD
- The Heroic Epic is built. I switched one of the Factories under way to it. We can use every MGL we get, because Armies are our only halfway useful offensive weapon at the moment.
- The Inca brought surprisingly few units. Cavalry, Knights, Guerilla, and others are being dispatched.
1550 AD
- Incan forces are starting to pour in - this time for real. Lots of Knights, and Cavalry. No Infantry, though.
- Massive battle for Memphis. And by massive, I mean over 60 units, of which 30 Medieval Infantry were lost. But, Heliopolis fell. The massacre wasn't for nothing after all.
- Many Incan Knights, and Cavalry are dispatched.
1555 AD (last turn)
- Luxury deals renewed.
- Horse deal NOT renewed. There are Horses near Memphis, so we should go and get those. Also, in 2 turns our best unit will be Infantry, which doesn't need Horses to be built.
- Once a Harbor is rushed in Port Hope, it will provide us with a much needed luxury.
- There is still that unimportant Babylonian city up north.
Attachment: succession byzantines - map, 1555 ad.jpg
This has been downloaded 31 time(s).
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