04-12-2004 13:24									#151
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More from the great state of Alabama:

quote: MONTGOMERY, Alabama (AP) -- A statewide recount showed that Alabama narrowly voted to keep language in the state constitution supporting segregation and poll taxes, according to unofficial totals released Friday. Secretary of State Nancy Worley said voters defeated the amendment by just 1,850 votes out of more than 1.3 million cast. The original vote count showed the amendment lost by the same margin, or 0.13 percent. Worley cautioned that the totals are unofficial until the votes are certified next week. "But this is an indication it is not going to turn around," she said. The amendment would have erased unenforced language from Alabama's constitution that required segregated schools and poll taxes, which were designed to keep blacks from voting. Supporters of the amendment said the language is a painful and embarrassing reminder of the South's divisive past, and makes Alabama look bad to companies who might want to do business in the state. But the measure also would have removed language that said there is no constitutional right to an education at public expense in Alabama. Opponents said removing it could have led to huge, court-ordered tax hikes for schools. Gov. Bob Riley said Friday he will ask the Legislature in its February session to approve a version of the amendment that would remove only the constitutional language on segregated schools and poll taxes. That is what he originally wanted, but the Legislature decided to expand his recommendation before presenting it to voters in the November 2 election. "Despite the defeat of Amendment Two, I'm confident the vast majority of Alabamians support removing segregationist language from our constitution," the governor said. Most counties had close to or exactly the same totals they had on November 2, but some saw variations of hundreds of votes. County election officials attributed the differences to some ballots not being counted by electronic scanners because they were too wrinkled, and voters marking the ballots with their personal pens rather than those provided at polling places. In a few instances, counties misplaced some ballots between the election and the recount, election officials said.

	04-12-2004 13:47									#152
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So the legislators are to blame, ignore for a moment ignorant voters. The original wording would have removed the crap, but the legislators just HAD to add something to it they new the public wouldn't like.

Oh, and this is charming:

quote: County election officials attributed the differences to some ballots not being counted by electronic scanners because they were too wrinkled, and voters marking the ballots with their personal pens rather than those provided at polling places. In a few instances, counties misplaced some ballots between the election and the recount, election officials said.

I call shenanigans! Scantrons sheets that were used in Nevada until recently didn't care if you used graphite or ink, pollsters' pens or your own, as long as the mark was dark enough. The rest of that paragraph is bullsh*t too of a different sort.

	04-12-2004 17:28									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Nice of you to address my arguments BK .

Oddly enough a similar thought occurred to me with regard to my request for information from him.

	04-12-2004 17:33									#154
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I smell a rat

	04-12-2004 17:37									#155
	Put an end to popups!

Sorry, that's me. I'll take a shower when I get up in a few hours before work.

	04-12-2004 18:03									#156
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Sorry, that's me. I'll take a shower when I get up in a few hours before work.

Don't forget to remove the rat.

	05-12-2004 00:17									#158
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Taking care of that now.

	05-12-2004 00:54									#159
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Books with gay characters on my bookshelf:
- Axiomatic and Luminous by Greg Egan
- Ash by Mary Gentle
- The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson (IIRC)
- Iron Council by China Mieville
- The Wars by Timothy Findley
- Anvil of the Stars by Greg Bear
- a few others

	05-12-2004 01:40									#160
	Remove this text

I went to Amazon.com and I found the historical fiction novel that includes two "gay" Confederate soldiers:


Unto This Hour, by Tom Wicker




I read it a few years ago, and it was excellent reading.

	05-12-2004 10:10									#161
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I finally posted the info, and nobody rewards me with a cookie for my effort?

	05-12-2004 10:12									#162
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* St Leo awards MrFun with a gold star and a jar of cookies for valiant effort

	05-12-2004 10:15									#163
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YAY!!

	05-12-2004 10:59									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I wonder. Would there be any uproar about having a bible on the shelves of the university collection? What about in an elementary school? What say ye proponents of free speech?

I have yet to see a university where you couldn't get one.

For that matter, I have yet to see a public library where you couldn't get one. I'm between dealing with elementary schools, since Ian's too young and Lisa is a senior in high school (Bibles available in that library).

A Bible in a public school library shouldn't be a problem. Until you have one in every desk and mandate religion class, or decide to back door some particular sectarian religious instruction by making an English class book report out of it.

The problem you seem to be dancing around is how you define a class of books. Should they ban the Ilian because the reason Achilles got so pissed at Hector and got into that dragging the body behind the chariot mutiliation thang was because Patroklos was Achille's lover?

	05-12-2004 11:00									#165
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I finally posted the info, and nobody rewards me with a cookie for my effort?

What info, do you think any of us can really be arsed to read a whole thread dealing with gays and the great state of 'Bammy?

	05-12-2004 11:01									#166
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat What gay characters? And don't say David and Jonathan. They were not gay. Obviously, banning gay books is wrong. I believe in free speech. let everyone, pro-gay and anti-gay publish their views and let people read what they want and make up their own minds.

Where do you think the term Sodomy comes from?

	05-12-2004 13:33									#167
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Oops, Sorry Whaleboy:

quote: The censorship is rarely if ever political. At that level it usually involves violence or sex. Also exclusive political views (i.e. Nazism, homophobia, and others that seek to discriminate).

That's my point. Why should we allow all books to be available at the elementary school level. There are some forms of censorship that are approved of by society.

	05-12-2004 13:36									#168
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quote: I have yet to see a university where you couldn't get one.

Same here.

quote: For that matter, I have yet to see a public library where you couldn't get one. I'm between dealing with elementary schools, since Ian's too young and Lisa is a senior in high school (Bibles available in that library). A Bible in a public school library shouldn't be a problem. Until you have one in every desk and mandate religion class, or decide to back door some particular sectarian religious instruction by making an English class book report out of it.

I'm not saying that should be a part of things. I am saying that a public school library ought to provide a Bible in the library, and that the 'secularity' of the school ought not to prevent the school from offering challeging books.

quote: The problem you seem to be dancing around is how you define a class of books. Should they ban the Ilian because the reason Achilles got so pissed at Hector and got into that dragging the body behind the chariot mutiliation thang was because Patroklos was Achille's lover?

True, I was. But I wanted to see what response I got from the other folks. And I'm pleased to see that I got the response I desired.

	05-12-2004 16:18									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Beware, hanging out too much in a sauna, with everyone having his sausage exposed, can do this to you.

If anything, surely it would have the opposite effect.

	05-12-2004 19:49									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar The bible has homosexual characters in it. We should burn it.

The Bible is the most pernicious piece of literature ever written.

	05-12-2004 19:52									#171
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quote: The bill also would ban materials that recognize or promote a lifestyle or actions prohibited by the sodomy and sexual misconduct laws of Alabama.

I thought those were unconstitutional.

	05-12-2004 19:53									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't see why. Parents can choose if they want their children to have a religious-influenced publically-funded education. The ones that do not wish their kids to have religious influences in their elementary school go to the secular schools, while the ones that do wish their kids to have religious influences go to the religious schools. The bible is hate literature, I wouldn't want my kids reading it in elementary school. I went to a secular elementary school, and once these fundies actually gave out free pocket-sized bibles to everyone at the playground. The police eventually escorted him off the school grounds, and we used the bibles to throw at eachother and have a bible fight (they were soft-cover, with a vinyl-like cover).

You have publicly funded religious schools?!

	05-12-2004 19:59									#173
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Asher, if you're referring to the Bible, that in of itself is not a reason to ban it from public school libraries. The Bible in of itself is not "hate" literature.

Yes it is.

	05-12-2004 22:01									#174
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Oh c-mon. In which part?
Some of the OT perhaps, but NT?

	05-12-2004 22:42									#175
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Trolls don't need reasons, Heresson. Children like Kuci are especially prone to fits of irrationality.

	05-12-2004 22:47									#176
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Rich, coming from you

	05-12-2004 23:13									#177
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quote: You have publicly funded religious schools?!

Funny how that works, cuz we have them too and yet we are faaaar less religious than the US.

	05-12-2004 23:31									#178
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Dino, You are right. I forgot not to take Kuci's remarks seriously.

	06-12-2004 00:19									#179
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: You have publicly funded religious schools?! Funny how that works, cuz we have them too and yet we are faaaar less religious than the US.

Well yeah. Religion flourishes much better in the absence of state support.

	06-12-2004 00:55									#180
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You're joking, right?