06-12-2004 11:12									#211
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i think that a lot of problems with condoms is user error.

And do you think the error rate will go up or down if fundies get their way and children are not taught how to properly use condoms?

	06-12-2004 19:41									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp It's also enough to say that pregnancy can cause sterility, whether it goes to term or not. Ben- how can you bring yourself to be so wilfully stupid when you aren't?

I tell ya, it's the gift of faith, it just keeps on giving.

	06-12-2004 20:39									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The condom manufacturers came by one night and they used you as the model while you were asleep. Now the rest of us are stuck with french letters that fit us about as well as the underwear we wore when we were 8 would if we tried to wear them today. This explains the lousy track record of condoms in general.

Maybe if you folks would bother getting your woman "in the mood" there wouldn't be so much friction...

Anyhow, I've had a couple break on me, but it was in the middle so replacing it was no trouble. It's sort of noticeable when it happens.

	06-12-2004 20:41									#214
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Plus it's not like I've been sleeping with a large number of random women, so I wasn't worried about STDs the two times it's happened.

	06-12-2004 21:21									#215
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Why is abstinence silly? You have 100% chance of avoiding pregnancy. You 100% chance of avoiding STD's resulting from sexual intercourse. You also avoid any negative emotional effects from having sex with someone you shouldn't have.

These results happen only when someone remains abstinent. Since 85-88% of the abstinence pledgers didn't uphold their pledge, it does mean that abstinence, as a principle, has 85-88% chance of not being followed by those who agree with it.
I agree with you that sex-ed shouldn't actively encourage the spirit "if it feels good, just do it". But sex-ed should be realistic, and treat the youngsters as people who'll have sex with several partners before marriage. And sex-ed should give the knowledge necessary to avoid the potential problems that arise when one has sex.

quote: Abstinence can help teach young people to respect their bodies and respect the opposite sex more. It can also help teach young people that there is more to life than sex. And it can help teach young people to make better priorities in life and to value more meaningful relationships. Those are noble goals that you don't get from the "if it feels good, just do it but wear a condom" school of thought. It is that school of thought that has caused the huge social decay that we are suffering from in this country.

I don't know how sex-ed looks like in the US, but I don't think the sex-educators are actively encouraging the young to have sex. I think sex-ed should be value-neutral. It shouldn't preach in any way: for abstinence, for long relationships, for short relationships, for purely random sex... Sex-ed should talk about how sex works; while the values about it should be conveyed by society as a whole (parents, TV, etc.)

	06-12-2004 23:18									#216
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Even if we accept that the "ideal" for teaching abstinence is 100% compared to the ideal for condoms as 97%, the sensible conclusion would be to teach both until the ACTUAL value of teaching abstinence is 100%. Up until then, as long as you suspect that even one student in a class of 30 is going to break any such pledge, a teacher has a duty to teach them how to protect themselves.

	07-12-2004 05:34									#217
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What abstinence folks really want is for people to abstain from fun.

I'd bet a sizeable sum of cash that, should a contraceptive appear that is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy and stopping STDs, they'll find some other ridiculous reason to prevent people from having sex.

That's what it's about. You can only have sex with people they approve, in places and positions they approve of, and with the light off.

	07-12-2004 06:18									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon What abstinence folks really want is for people to abstain from fun. I'd bet a sizeable sum of cash that, should a contraceptive appear that is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy and stopping STDs, they'll find some other ridiculous reason to prevent people from having sex. That's what it's about. You can only have sex with people they approve, in places and positions they approve of, and with the light off.

I have to make a opposal to you : Sex i better with the light ON !!! Ok, you may be so desperate that you prefare lights off, but that is not a general problem

	07-12-2004 06:24									#219
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Are you sure you read my post?

Besides, it's better on the university quad in broad daylight.

	07-12-2004 06:24									#220
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Sex with lights on

Abstinence-only education



I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that I'm one of only very, very few Polytubbies whose job it is to work with children. In my experience, abstinence-only does not work.

	07-12-2004 06:26									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Besides, it's better on the university quad in broad daylight.

Now THAT, my friend, is ballsy. Kudos to you, good sir.

I knew a guy in college who had sex at Comisky Park during a White Sox game. Naturally, that man is my personal hero.

	07-12-2004 06:28									#222
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quote: In my experience, abstinence-only does not work.

In my experience, nothing works, so why waste time and money teaching sex ed in schools when parents can do the futile preaching at home?

	07-12-2004 06:33									#223
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Just make it part of friggen biology, for heaven's sake. That's where it belongs anyway. This is what sex is, these are the risks, this is how risks can be minimized. Christ, this **** isn't rocket science.

	07-12-2004 06:35									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Are you sure you read my post?

Sure, and i even think we agree, but if you read what you wrote, then youl'l agreee with me.

Otherwise, please explain what confuses you.

	07-12-2004 06:37									#225
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quote: Just make it part of friggen biology, for heaven's sake. That's where it belongs anyway. This is what sex is, these are the risks, this is how risks can be minimized. Christ, this **** isn't rocket science.

I wouldn't be opposed to this. Will never happen though, since it doesn't push the agenda of either the left or the right...

	07-12-2004 06:39									#226
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quote: Otherwise, please explain what confuses you.

I thought I was opposing lights-off sex.

	07-12-2004 06:40									#227
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Well, dammit man, let's brainstorm then. We have to find some way to make this proposal absolutely unpalatable to one side or the other, and thus make it the One True Way to the other group of loonies.

Between my brains and your... your... um... ability to escape Nebraska, I'm sure we can come up with something.

	07-12-2004 06:43									#228
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quote: In my experience, nothing works, so why waste time and money teaching sex ed in schools when parents can do the futile preaching at home?

For the humour value of people like me going up and asking the attractive female bio teacher when the practical exam is....

I don't know. The condom thing worked for me. I was paranoid of knocking some girl up (my town had the world's highest rate of teen pregnancy when I was 16) and the AIDS thing was rather terrifying (although it did not bring with it the same fear of immediate parental retribution).

	07-12-2004 06:45									#229
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quote: Well, dammit man, let's brainstorm then. We have to find some way to make this proposal absolutely unpalatable to one side or the other, and thus make it the One True Way to the other group of loonies.

You could show the kids a highly detailed model of a woman's reproductive system, but you would be sure to tell them that this wonderful system is all god's handiwork, fashioned with loving care from Adam's rib bone. Would teach them to love science and Jesus at the same time. I know I'd love the son of the person responsible for creating the vagina...

	07-12-2004 06:45									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Just make it part of friggen biology, for heaven's sake. That's where it belongs anyway. This is what sex is, these are the risks, this is how risks can be minimized. Christ, this **** isn't rocket science.

Please don't stoop to such simple solutions. Teenage sex has nothing to do with biology, it's a moral and more important, a religious way of way of life !!!

Don't come here and try to induce biology when it concernces humans. What are you ? a damn darwinist ?











Regards from a true Darwinist beliver

	07-12-2004 06:57									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Think about che's 17'th birthday. "I give you the most precious gift of all... the gift of masturbation!"

It wasn't my birthday.

	07-12-2004 06:58									#232
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quote: It wasn't my birthday.

But it felt that way, right?

	07-12-2004 07:08									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I know I'd love the son of the person responsible for creating the vagina...

	07-12-2004 07:17									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You could show the kids a highly detailed model of a woman's reproductive system, but you would be sure to tell them that this wonderful system is all god's handiwork, fashioned with loving care from Adam's rib bone. Would teach them to love science and Jesus at the same time. I know I'd love the son of the person responsible for creating the vagina...

Brilliant!

	07-12-2004 08:33									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I'm one of only very, very few Polytubbies whose job it is to work with children

I'm a TA.

	07-12-2004 08:53									#237
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For the love of sex, use them!

Attachment: condom.jpg
This has been downloaded 24 time(s).

	07-12-2004 08:54									#238
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Why? Good God, I'm only teaching E&M!

	07-12-2004 08:56									#239
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Preceding post brought to you by the "Teach MrFun a sense of humour" foundation.

We've still got a long way to go, folks.

	07-12-2004 08:56									#240
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That post of mine was not directed at any individual poster, KH.



It was just a spam post.