 |
| |
|
|
Ramo
|
 |
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:18
|
|
Why Austin needs to secede:
quote:
Here it is just days after the red states gave their presidential seal of approval to the man from Texas, and we've already been treated to another skirmish in the culture wars. The Texas Board of Education has now given its educational seal of approval to what may soon be dubbed Red Sex Ed.
The big news is the state's successful demand that textbook publishers change the description of marriage between "two people" to marriage between "a man and a woman." They also ordered that marriage be defined as "a lifelong union between a husband and a wife."
Frankly, I found the "lifelong" description charming considering that the Lone Star State has one of the highest divorce rates in the country. Massachusetts, by the way, has the lowest divorce rate in the country. We are so fond of marriage that we want everyone to do it.
But never mind all that. The real heart of the textbook controversy is whether Texas students should learn about contraception. And the answer is no. Texas has now officially gone to abstinence-only textbooks. The students are learning the ABCs of sex ed without the C. And as Texas, the second-largest book buyer in the country, goes, so may go the nation.
Only one of the four approved books even mentions contraceptives. The altered lessons teach students how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases in many ways — including "getting plenty of rest" — but not by using condoms. One actually suggests using latex gloves to avoid contact with blood but says nothing about using latex . . . you get the idea.
Ironically, the state curriculum for health education still mandates that students "analyze the effectiveness and ineffectiveness of barrier protection and other contraceptive methods." But the books have expunged the information they're required to learn.
In some ways, this Texas story is proof of how the abstinence-only lobby is flexing its muscle. But Americans are nowhere nearly as polarized over sex education as it appears in this public wrangling.
Americans have come to some sort of uneasy understanding that sex education is not just about health, but also about values. It's not just about biology, but also about relationships.
As Samantha Smoot, who heads the Texas Freedom Network that opposes textbook censorship, says, "Everyone agrees that abstinence is the best choice for teenagers. And everyone thinks books should give kids real negotiation skills and information that helps them make responsible decisions." Last summer, some 90 percent of Texans surveyed said they wanted teens to learn about both abstinence and contraception.
Americans, especially parents, believe that teenagers should delay sex, even if we have trouble answering the next question: Until when? Some believe sex should be postponed until that mystical age called maturity and others until marriage. Everyone seems to hope that their own kids will wait till they're no longer under our roof.
But it turns out that most parents are pragmatic as well as worried. We have rules and fallback positions. We don't want our kids to drink, but we want them to call us for a ride home if they do. We don't want them to have sex, but we hope they'll use protection if they do. If that's a mixed message, it's a safety message. And it's working.
Over the past decade, teen pregnancy and births are down by about 30 percent. As a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention scientist showed, just about half the decrease in pregnancy comes from abstinence and half from increased contraceptive use.
Nevertheless in Texas, which has the highest teenage birth rate in the country, an ardent minority is pushing abstinence-only information, or lack of information.
Sarah Brown, who runs the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, says that the public argument is out of step with private reality. "We know that young people spend more time engaged in the media than in school, let alone in Mrs. Schmidt's health education class," she says.
A lot of the deeper worries, she adds, are really about the popular and crude culture. "You don't know what to do about trash TV or stresses on the family or the latest story about hooking up or oral sex in middle school," she adds, "But you can go down to the school board and say, 'I hate these two pages.' "
So this is where we are. We have a shared agreement on the importance of teaching both abstinence and protection. We have as well a shared opposition to the culture that sells sex like doughnuts.
But in politics we see only the most polarized debate in which we're told that we have to chose between A for abstinence and C for contraception. In this class, Texas gets an incomplete. |
http://www.statesman.com/opinion/co...UWUXUUUZTZU_UWU]UbUZUaU`UcTYWVVZV
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pekka
|
 |
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
|
|
 congrats, you have made it to our papers today.... 'wrong information about sex taught to American teens with taxpayers money'. I guess it could be worse. Then you get the worst quotes about this, and then you get some murrican slamming this whole thing, so they save your face at the end.
But still, it is kind of .. hmm.. I mean. I can speak for boys I guess, so it's not too bad to know about sex. It's not exactly teaching the 1000 positions. You put right weight to different things, stress out few things, then you get it right. You talk about it being most of all lovers thing who are adults and care for each other. Why would you make it dangerous, that's how people make babies. Then, talking about the dangers as a separate issue, but very important one. Then talking about what it means when girls say no. That's also usually included. And that everybody masturbates even if they deny. That's what I was taught. And that there's nothing to be ashamed about, and you should do it when you are ready and when you have a partner who is also ready. Then condoms, and make sure everyone knows the urban legends that don't work.
The reality if the situation is, girls just lke boys have a sex drive at early age, but girls want the emotional thing more than boys. Now, unless boys go and enforce girls to have sex with them, then it's not really going to happen until they are both ready, so what happens is most boys at their mid teens don't get any sex because they don't have that partner who is ready to have sex with them. Because the boys usually just are about sex and not about the emoitonal side. So it doesn't work, it doesn't happen. In general. Of course it happens, but in general this is the problem the boys face, and this is why the sexy rarely happens. But it will happen sooner or later, so why not make it a bit more comfortable.
The reality of the situation is, the boys are horny lads but they have no idea what to do with a girl in their mid teens. Only few of them are ready to go at it if the situation should arise, because they have never used a condom but they know they must. So they have to learn how to put on a condom first properly, because they don't want to get embarrased by fiddling with it uncomfortably. The only way it's happening is if they girl and boy care about each other, then the fiddling with the condom is not a problem but can be come over.
In general. You always have freak situations. But that can't be prevented. So, there's positive thing for the adults who don't feel comfortable that their kids are sexual beings. They're most likely going to **** it up even though they had proper sex ed 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BlackCat
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Very true. You know what happens when they perforate a uterus?
|
Yes, and that's what typically happens where abortion is banned and the women has to go to illegal abortion "clinics" or try with the steel hanger. Where abortion is legal it's a very seldom thing.
quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Why is abstinence silly? You have 100% chance of avoiding pregnancy. You 100% chance of avoiding STD's resulting from sexual intercourse. You also avoid any negative emotional effects from having sex with someone you shouldn't have.
|
You are right, there are a slim chance of pregnancy and it rises a little without proper education. About STD's i don't belive that the major part of girls/womens in the neighborhood are a potential source of such. About the emotional part, well, if i hit on every female in the surrounding, yes, you are right, but i prefer the current girlfriend (that gives less physical damage if she should find out  )
quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Abstinence can help teach young people to respect their bodies and respect the opposite sex more. It can also help teach young people that there is more to life than sex. And it can help teach young people to make better priorities in life and to value more meaningful relationships. Those are noble goals that you don't get from the "if it feels good, just do it but wear a condom" school of thought. It is that school of thought that has caused the huge social decay that we are suffering from in this country. |
[/QUOTE]
Don't agree. You don't respect your body when it is raging with hormones that says that it want sex and you are suppressing it because social (ok, typically religious) rules says that what your body tells you are wrong. By that, i don't say that a girl in that condition should go from boy to boy, but there should not be anything wrong if she does it with her current boyfriend. On the contrary, i think that it is a tool to build up sensible relationships.
quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Sex is not the problem but sex can be part of the problem. Yes, divorce and the collapse of the family structure are partly respsonsible for the social decay. But in many cases, sex (ie, adultery, promiscuity) played a role in causing the divorce or the collapse of the family. So, irresponsible sexual behavior can contribute to some of the social problems we face today. The whole point of abstinence programs is to try to teach young people to be more sexually responsible. "Safe sex" classes don't do that. Teaching young people that it is ok to have sex whenever they want and with whomever they want, as long as they wear a condom does not inculcate responsible behavior. |
I don't belive for a moment that sex with others than your spouse is a primary reason for divorces - it may be reason for some violence, but not divorce.
I think that you misunderstand something about sex-ed. It dosen't teach you to "have sex whenever they want and with whomever they want", they teach that IF you have sex, then there are some precautions that are sensible to implement.
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypse
There are perks to not masturbating early or too often...if you do it too much it desensitizes and it'll be harder to get off with normal sex and blowjobs. |
Don't see that as a big problem. Most people probably start by themselves untill they discover the opposite sex. Later, if you still masturbate having a loved, well, either you are a nymphoman or your relationship should be reconcidered.
quote:
Originally posted by Wycoff
WHAT??? I started when I was 12, and I was religious! You must have been a very gullible kid. I feel sorry for you. |
12 ? Old farth My parents was so stupid that they hid their "weekend sex" in locked drawers an at 9 is was so curious that i both got into the drawers (without trace :-) ) and found the stuff Very interesting.
quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
MRT, but there is nothing wrong with teaching that abstinence is a real option for some people. |
You are right but why impose that on everybody ? Why not let it be a choice people can do when they have general knowledge about the subject ? Otherwise you are forcing people to make a choice without knowing all possibillites. Ie. an election where one of the choices aren't allowed to tell people what they stand for (Ukraine !). What you suggest is that others has the right to choose for you and that isn't nice  .
quote:
Originally posted by Timexwatch
I wish I had a real education before I started having sex. I had to learn the hard way how do everything right
Also,
 For the morning-after pill, it's saved my ass recently. It's the last line of contraception for some of us unlucky guys... |
Well, maybe a woman or two may have the same feeling
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wycoff
|
|
THe thing in Austin is pretty screwed up... sounds like parents need to step up, do their jobs, and tell their kids to use condoms.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BlackCat
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Yeah -- they should put a condom in with every teenager's sack lunch before sending them off to school. |
And what good should that do if she doesn't know how to úse it ?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BlackCat
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So?
My liver is larger now than when I was an infant. So is my brain. Does that mean that as an infant, I didn't have a brain. |
I don't see any question about the size of your brain as an infant.. As a matter of fact noone has questioned anything regarding born childs.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BlackCat
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
They have made the point, that what counts is the size of the organ.
If so, then why should an infant with a smaller brain than an adult be considered just as much of a person? |
No, there has never been any claim about size except the point that a body at the size of a ricegrain do not have the capability of a human being. This is what has been claimed, nothing else.
It is you that takes the step from this ricegrain sized beeing to a full grown child, witch isn't a part of this thread.
If you want to discuss abortion i suggest that you start a thread about this (I will take it as a honour to fight against you in such a thread (consider this as a smack in the face by my glove)) - well, are you a gentleman or not ?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Wycoff
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Yeah -- they should put a condom in with every teenager's sack lunch before sending them off to school. |
... I don't know what kind of high school that you attended 
My parents told me to use protection. They're typical social conservatives, but they also have common sense. I think people underestimate parental advice when looking at these kinds of things. I had sex-ed in 7th grade and 9th grade, and I thought it was very informative. Its funny, because in 7th grade you had to get a permission slip signed by your parents before taking the class. In 9th grade, while everyone was taking the required health class, they lumped in the same sex ed info as they had in 7th grade, but this time w/o forcing you to get a permisison slip signed first. All the fundy kids had to learn it, and their parents were none the wiser.
Sex ed is useful. It informs you about the diseases, tells you about contraception and the fact that its not always perfect, tells you that abstinence is the only way to 100% safe way to avoid STDs and pregnancy and, if you are going to be sexually active, that its much safer to be in a loving, monogamous relationship than to go out, get drunk at parties and hook up with strangers. Good, sound advice w/o being too preachy or advocating pre-marital sex.
I consider myself socially conservative, but I fully support sex ed in public schools, no earlier than 7th grade and no later than 10th grade.
fundies 
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.
Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
03-12-2004 23:37
|