05-02-2005 20:04									#61
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Gigabyte GA-6WMM

That's known as a Houston mobo at PB, and there are about a dozen different versions, many of which have their own BIOS updates. You absolutely need to use the serial number to determine which update(s) are suitable for your system.

	05-02-2005 21:02									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

ok cheers for the info Locutus - i'll leave of flashing the Bios until next week when i've had a good look at the PB site using my serial numbers.

	05-02-2005 23:22									#63
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor You have an on-board pc dont you? Have you tried yet to put in a better graphics card? anyway if not then maybe when you do, and if you get problems then this part of the thread may help out a little - especially if i can get mine sorted

actually i think my current dinosaur actually has a discrete card - rage something?

But why upgrade it? there arent any games im interested in that will run on the PC that the video card is a problem for. Im limited by the CPU speed and the RAM. Id have to rebuild the whole machine to make it decent, and I dont think thats really doable, and id be afraid of really messing it up. Once we have a second machine, I may upgrade the RAM for better performance, but thats about it.

	05-02-2005 23:32									#64
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Crass to quote your own posts but I just reread the thread. LotM I see you are in fact worried about building for the future, but have concluded you can get this machine now and buy a decent one later. I don't think you appreciate how much easier (and cheaper!) it is to upgrade. I have built 3 systems in my life for personal use, a P2-400 with Voodoo3 graphics (this kicked severe ass when I built it), a 1.2 Ghz Athlon with Hercules with great budget card graphics (this kicked less ass in relative terms, but was a cheap upgrade) and my current 2Ghz with 9800 Pro (kicked most ass when built, but cost a nasty amount of cash all in as I upgraded most at once this time). Each system has fed into the next. I have 2 systems from the 3 I built (ie one with old components entirely). I still use my monitor, keyboard and floppy drive from my first machine! The old mobo, cpu, hard drive, and graphics card are in my spare machine. Other stuff I sold to get money for upgrade. Consider it. P.S I agree with the post I quoted. That guy makes a lot of sense.

Youre about right. Im thinking if I can buy, say a $400 machine, and it lasts for 2 plus years, and then buy another $400 machine (with circa 2007 bargain specs) im better off than trying to buy a machine now that will last 4 years, with an upgrade in 2007. depends on the prices though, which is why im considering the longterm. I certainly WOULDNT buy a machine I could hardly upgrade at all, like my current one. But the priority is a machine with easily upgradeable RAM, which even the bargain basement machines have now. 2nd priority would be a SLOT for a discrete video card, assuming the premium I pay for that isnt too much. Now thats where the local shop comes in. The bargain basement name brand machines are really cheap, but dont have the discrete video card slots. The name brand machines with AGP/PCI slots or with discrete cards are SIGNIFICANTLY more, to the point where my buy a cheapo machine every couple of years strat probably makes more sense. But a shop built machine gives me the option of a machine with an AGP/PCI slot at not that much greater a price, and thats tempting.


I suppose I could ask them upfront about issues like COT faced, upgrading to a discrete card from the integrated video the Mobo comes with- the question comes up - can i trust them - which of course is the question that comes up with any shop built machine.

	06-02-2005 18:19									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, if you don't feel confident to do it yourself getting a shop to build a machine with components *you* specify (we can help) is just a much better choice.

I hope I helped move you away from the eternal pain the extreme budget stuff would have caused you.

	06-02-2005 23:37									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I hope you don't get any intregrated graphics. They are one of the many reasons PC gaming is dying slowly.

	08-02-2005 03:21									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by pg I hope you don't get any intregrated graphics. They are one of the many reasons PC gaming is dying slowly.

Happy PC buyer runs and buys $350(US) PC with Integ. Graphics and nice CPU speed and Ram numbers, looks at Half Life 2 box, sees specs seem ok, buys HL2, it doesnt work, gets disgusted with PC gaming, and goes back to Halo2 on his xbox. Or so the story goes.

Dont worry, PG that wont happen to me.

	08-02-2005 04:46									#68
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

For your knowledge, I got an Asus K8V-MX with integrated graphics. I got it to cut down the price of my PC and, first and foremost, to control my gaming urges. Well, I underestimated my gaming urges: a couple of weeks later, I got a Radeon 9550 and "Vampires: the masquerade bloodlines". It works fine, except for the infinite loop problem that crashes my system once in a while. That problem doesn't seem to be linked to the integrated graphics.

	08-02-2005 17:43									#69
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

http://support.packardbell.com/uk/m...mphonyclub#show

OK if you scroll down the BIOS screens untill you get to:

< < PCI/PLUG AND PLAY SETUP > >

Primary Graphics Adapter can be either: ON-BOARD VGA(default) or ADD-ON VGA.

PCI VGA palette snoop can be either: Enabled or Disabled(default). I only mention this as i've no idea what it does, but it came up in one of the answers i'd trawled the internet for - "look for a snoop PCI option or something like that".

Anyway no matter what combination i use on these options, the new card wont work.

whenever ADD-ON VGA is selected the PC wont boot up. I get one single beep sound, my green 'Power ON' light is on, as is the keyboard light. But after that one beep, you get no sound of hard-drive access and the monitor remains blank(with it plugged into either the new card or the default monitor port on the pc).

Could this be a Power issue? The 150w pc power supply is responsible for supplying the monitors power as well(it doesn't have its own plug, using one of those 'daisy-chain' power leads that plug into the PSU on the pc).

After this happens the only way to get back into the PC is to physicaly remove the new graphics card and reboot. It automaticaly uses either the on-board i810(if its not been disabled) or whatever you've selected in its place(like 'standard VGA').

Now i've heard of one guy who then, in frustration, completely disabled both the i810 and the standard VGA, trying to force the PC to work in the 'ADD-ON VGA' mode. He couldn't get back into his pc at all after that, and had to take it to a repair shop!

So i'm not trying that one

	09-02-2005 03:28									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

150W is pretty weak, but I doubt it's the issue to be honest.

	09-02-2005 18:10									#71
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Did you try a BIOS update yet?

	09-02-2005 20:47									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

@Dr.Spike - yeah if the bios updates dont do anything, then this will be my last thing to try before it goes to the charity shop, at least i've got my P166

@Locutus - not yet, but i'm getting the files(hous30y.exe and pbhou30w.exe) as i type, so should be able to get back to you on that in the next few days
I'm going to try the oldest bios update first, then go with the later one if need be - is this a good idea as they dont give much info away on the website?

Last edited by child of Thor on 09-02-2005 at 21:14

	09-02-2005 21:55									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If you're sure the BIOS updates are both suitable for your mobo, yes, that's a very good idea.

	10-02-2005 00:20									#74
	Remove this text

Make sure you read the instructions 8 times. BIOS flashing without the right procedures will kill your machine off for sure.

	10-02-2005 00:32									#75
	Inflate your Upload Space

what instructions?.........it says on the PB website "double-click the extractor file to put it in a disk, then reboot your computer with the disk in the drive, follow the on-screen promts". Thats about it

Maybe i'll kill it - maybe it deserves to die......coming over all superior with its fancy PIII proccessor and all. pfht...on-board graphics you cant(easily?) turn off.

Its like the EA of home computers - promising so much more, but then failing to deliver anything of interest. Ok well its not really like that, but a dig at EA in my momment of frustration is kinda soothing.

I'll report back here in a day or two with either my story of victory or terminal failure.

	10-02-2005 00:38									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I feel your pain.

Good luck.

	10-02-2005 00:56									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

No worries - if its meant to be it will work out eventually.

I should be ok with the flash the Bios thing, i wont do anything daft like dripping water onto the processor. Or heating the new Geforce2 in the oven first etc.

Still its just a slightly puzzeling problem, as it seems i should be able to add a new graphics card.......very annoying.
I've now got a few games i like(/would like) to play on this system that i can't if it does die.

	10-02-2005 03:44									#78
	Suffering from ads?

now wait a minute, im confused.


COT, you had an dinosaur P166.

You got a Pentium3 (at least 500 Mhz?) But it had only integrated video. Now youre sweating trying to install a video card.

What games do you want that it wont run? MTW? Id think there are plenty of games it will run that wouldnt work on your old P166.

	10-02-2005 04:53									#79
	Got spare money?

You'd be surprised

the games i want to play but cant because of the on-board are(so far):

MTW
Theif2

the games i can play on the PIII(but not p166) and will be sad to loose if i fry the motherboard are:

Patrician3
HardWar

erm...Middle Kingdom something or other.....its in the Pharoah series of city builder games.

thats its. I cant really think of many other games this PC would enable me to play though, not that i would like better than what igot already.....maybe the NWN games?

So not that many - the first two games(MTW+Thief2) were the main reason for taking the pc home in the first place.

	10-02-2005 09:19									#80
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I just got Rome Total War for my 3.2gig Ati 9800 desktop and decided to try to install it on my Dell laptop as well (p4 but intel shared graphics), it worked fine at the lower graphics settings.

The Dell has 512 meg and the graphics take 64 of that so theres memory to spare, if you are having trouble getting RtW to work, I'd look at the memory rather than the on-board graphics first.

	11-02-2005 00:54									#81
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The 64 refers to the amount of RAM your video card has, not the amount of your system RAM it uses.

	11-02-2005 01:17									#82
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike The 64 refers to the amount of RAM your video card has, not the amount of your system RAM it uses.

Doc, in an integrated system thats the amount thats SHARED - IE the amount the video system takes from the system, IIUC.

	11-02-2005 01:31									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

News to me. I avoid such abominations.

	11-02-2005 02:41									#84
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike News to me. I avoid such abominations.

Really?


The point is IF youre buying a PC with integrated graphics, youve got to account for that in estimating your RAM needs. One more thing to weigh in the balance.

	11-02-2005 07:42									#85
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike News to me. I avoid such abominations.

Apology accepted

	11-02-2005 07:45									#86
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Really? The point is IF youre buying a PC with integrated graphics, youve got to account for that in estimating your RAM needs. One more thing to weigh in the balance.

Exactly, look at the *COMBINED* memory requirements before you blame the graphics card/system.

	11-02-2005 15:00									#87
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well it would be nice if my 'new' PC would atleast let me put in a new graphics card

For MTW i can get the game to load up but when you go into the options section, and look at the display settings; it shows the i810 as the graphics card but the tactical map display resolution is 'redded' out and when you test it it freezes up. The game boots you back to the title screen if you try to start a game.

Theif2 is an even older game(i think it mentions 32MB as the min rec?).

OK i've flashed the Bios(cheers Locutus ), first with the older update - no disasters and the small progress made was that now the PC will boot with the Geforce2 in the first PCI slot(Its the same old non-boot up story if i put it in either the 2nd or 3rd PCI slots).

I think the problem now is a conflict with the on-board sound chip(AC97 something). In the device manager both the NVDIA display adapter and the AC97 soundchip are now shown with the yellow exclamation mark on them, and when you go into eithers properties it says they are have a problem and are either not working or need to update drivers(but i got the latest) etc.

I did the whole 'add new hardware' for the graphics card and installed the drivers etc, tried disableing the on-board i810, selecting standard vga etc....but never got the option to use the Geforce2 as the main display adapter, unless there was that conflict with the soundchip.

So its a small victory, followed by some more head scratching.

I did then flash the Bios with the latest update, but it still had the same problem.

If i take the Geforce2 out of that first PCI slot then the sound is restored. Funny thing is this PCI slot was being used by my network card before and that never caused a problem?

I think i may just change the IRQ of the soundchip and see what happens.

Any other suggestions?

Last edited by child of Thor on 11-02-2005 at 15:11

	11-02-2005 23:42									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No specific advice except research IRQ conflicts and how to resolve them.

If I were you I'd post in the OT about your problems. They look very much solvable now.

	12-02-2005 16:27									#89
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike No specific advice except research IRQ conflicts and how to resolve them. If I were you I'd post in the OT about your problems. They look very much solvable now.

Well me and the OT have history that might not help me much...lets just say my political views upset some people

Still this thread is kinda appropriate as it does boil down to what games have problems with on-board, and how to fix that(hopefully). And i got Locutus on hand if things get real messy, so i'm not sweating it so much now

	12-02-2005 16:48									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Well me and the OT have history that might not help me much...lets just say my political views upset some people

You're not an advocate of home rule for Cornwall are you?