12-02-2005 16:55									#91
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by reds4ever You're not an advocate of home rule for Cornwall are you?

well you are speaking to a welshman

	12-02-2005 17:08									#92
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's enough to put people off by itself.

	12-02-2005 18:16									#93
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

just keep an eye on your leg of beef Dr.Spike

	12-02-2005 21:16									#94
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Well me and the OT have history that might not help me much...lets just say my political views upset some people

my sense is that people in OT will respond to a tech question without regard to what happens in the politics threads. You should see how some of us bitter political enemies get along in the non-political threads.

	12-02-2005 22:08									#95
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If you have a sound card, try putting it in, and/or disabling the on board sound.

	23-02-2005 00:29									#96
	Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for eveyones advice - it now works and i've been able to play MedivalTW at last

It was a slightly wierd result. I'd pretty much done everything i could think of(and was getting into assigning individual memmory blocks etc....), when i just got fed up on Sunday and decided to set my pc back to normal(on-board i810 etc) as i wanted to see what Gal-civ was like.
Anyway i did just that - removing all metion of the NVDIA geforce2 from my pc. I put the Network card back into its PCI slot(the first one,the one that caused the conflict with the on-board sound and the geforce2).

And after giving Gal-civ a quick look, decided to try one more time with the geforce.

I put it in the second PCI slot, booted the pc and the plug+play feature kicked in. Loaded the drivers as before, then had a slightly different screen where it said the on-board i810 was conflicting with the geforce, and i should click the 'resolve' box to continue, which i did. So after that i just needed to use the disable in hardware mode tick box(for the i810) and rebooted and everything was fine!

With my monitor plugged into the new Geforce2 card everything is running great

I'm sure i tried this before, but maybe the drivers hadn't installed correctly or something? anyway its all good and i now have a PC more powerfull than a P166 and more importantly one that i can play theif2 and MTW on

oh and no - i'm not going to get rid of the P166, its been a great gaming PC for me, and will continue to be

Last edited by child of Thor on 24-02-2005 at 17:24

	23-02-2005 00:32									#97
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Good.

And next time will you buy an "Extreme" system?

	23-02-2005 00:41									#98
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

well it has been "extreme"ly annoying... luckily i didn't have to buy it, it was a gift but still it makes me no more extremes for me

	23-02-2005 01:10									#99
	Increase Your PM Length

Listening LotM?

	23-02-2005 03:31									#100
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Listening LotM?

ah, but Cot didnt have a bargain basement OnBoard graphics with NO videocard slot machine, he had what ive been considering as a BETTER choice - a machine with onboard graphics, AND a free slot. Turns out it was not easy adding the discrete card. So it seems this implies going ever FARTHER upmarket and getting a game with a discrete video card from the beginning. OR it implies just forget the discrete card, and get the bargain basement machine only. That will run lots of games, do everything else I need, and leave the wallet fatter - than two years later go ahead and buy ANOTHER integrated graphics machine, which will probably run everything that I would need a video card for now.

The other factor is getting QOTM to change her thinking - to the idea that a PC is basically a short term product that you replace every couple of years, not something you spend a couple of thousand dollars on and keep for - sigh!!! - over 7 years.

QOTM on Saturday - why are were you looking for a new game, dont you already have alot of games?

QOTM on Sunday - so if a $300 PC will do what we need, who buys the $2,000 machines? Gamers? But dont you need that for your games?
LOTM - well, since our current PC hasnt been able to play anything thats come out in the last 4 and a half years ive got a lot of backlog.
QOTM - Shouldnt we buy something top of the line, since we keep it so long
LOTM - thats not really the best strategy
QOTM - So your saying its better to buy something cheaper and replace it more often? (Look of enlightenment)

	23-02-2005 03:58									#101
	Got spare money?

I refer the reader to my eloquently argued case for a more upgradeable budget system.

	23-02-2005 04:20									#102
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Pay more now, play less in the long run. Simple.

-Jam

	23-02-2005 09:25									#103
	Put an end to popups!

Speaking of which, how many years do you think my system could last, with no hardware upgrades?

20" LCD 1600x1200 16 MS
ATI RADEON X850 XT PE
3.4 GHz Intel Processor

	23-02-2005 14:47									#104
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Rough rule is 2 years after you bought it it will be getting old; perhaps not bad enough to make you upgrade everything, but maybe just a graphics card. 3 years and you'll probably need to upgrade.

However it is possible that games are less likely now to use all the resources of the best machines. I still think you will want to get some new parts in 2-3 years though.

My machine is just over a year old now, and is going strong.

	23-02-2005 19:51									#105
	Inflate your Upload Space

"I just don't like those systems..........my mate bought one, and the RAM went. I identified the problem easily but it was near impossible to fix it without sending the machine back. I finally managed it, but it took much more time than it should have (a 15 minute job tops)."

If you like getting under the hood, obviously you want a system where its easier to do that - and yes, that will be cheaper. I have to face the prospect that if something goes I may have to send the machine to a shop ANYWAY, based on the family situation.

	23-02-2005 19:55									#106
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Rough rule is 2 years after you bought it it will be getting old; perhaps not bad enough to make you upgrade everything, but maybe just a graphics card. 3 years and you'll probably need to upgrade. However it is possible that games are less likely now to use all the resources of the best machines. I still think you will want to get some new parts in 2-3 years though. My machine is just over a year old now, and is going strong.

So a nonupgradeable budget system will last like 2 years. And cost, say, $350. a fully upgradeable system WITH a discrete card will cost say $500 (and yes, I need them to assemble it, and thats $70 right there) and will last say another year? but I will have to spend money 2 years out to get that extra year?

	23-02-2005 20:25									#107
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well that was in response to LN, who, unlike yourself likes to play recent games. I'd see you upgrading on an as needed basis, a process that would be much easier with an upgradeable budget system.

I think that not being able to upgrade yourself may tip the scales a little, but would consider very seriously finding a shop (nearby or online store) that will build you a machine with components you specify (I'm sure people here will help). A nearby shop is best for support, and less chance of you needing it with a decent system.

Going around in circles a bit. I think you need to research more thoroughly what a budget machine with parts you specify will cost compared to the 'Extreme' type machines. If the difference is too much, then fair enough.

	23-02-2005 21:21									#108
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmm... I hope 64-bit applications/games don't come anytime soon.

	24-02-2005 00:49									#109
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: I'd see you upgrading on an as needed basis, a process that would be much easier with an upgradeable budget system.

Even the bare bones systems with the onboard graphics would allow RAM upgrades, which from what I can see will be by primary upgrade need.

quote: Going around in circles a bit. I think you need to research more thoroughly what a budget machine with parts you specify will cost compared to the 'Extreme' type machines. If the difference is too much, then fair enough.

Youre right, and i really wont be going to the trouble of looking closely at the build option till about 2 months from now. Of course if ANYONE is interested in doing the analysis for me ( ) id be happy to post the link of the local shop - i had mentioned them in OT, to see if anyone local here could vouch for them, but none of the DC area polytubbies had even heard of them.

	24-02-2005 02:21									#110
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So you want me to give good advice *and* research it for you? Hell, why don't I build it for you and airmail it to your house?

	24-02-2005 03:05									#111
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike So you want me to give good advice *and* research it for you? Hell, why don't I build it for you and airmail it to your house?

surface will be just fine, Im in no hurry

	24-02-2005 04:01									#112
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hey chaps, perhaps some reading on the "Grid" system that IBM is working on, will add some more light to the situation.

	24-02-2005 04:07									#113
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark surface will be just fine, Im in no hurry

How reasonable.

	24-02-2005 17:36									#114
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well i can see LotM's point of view, especially if he's unlikely to want to be able to run the latest Halo15 etc in the next few years. There are a huge ammount of older and (imho)better games available for non top of the range gamers

If your going to be running mostly TBS/strat type games, then you really probably dont need an uber graphics card(still my situ is a case when the on-board is not enough even then!And Rome TW is way out my league).

Still i'm one PC away from covering all the gameing genre with my selection of pc's, and the last cog in the wheel will be a real PC, fully upgradeable and with a minimum of 1.5Ghz(cot dreams of the power ).

This way i'll be PC gameing for a long time to come.

	25-02-2005 00:04									#115
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Well i can see LotM's point of view, especially if he's unlikely to want to be able to run the latest Halo15 etc in the next few years. There are a huge ammount of older and (imho)better games available for non top of the range gamers If your going to be running mostly TBS/strat type games, then you really probably dont need an uber graphics card(still my situ is a case when the on-board is not enough even then!And Rome TW is way out my league).

Yeah, as I said it comes down to the price difference. Personally even with LotM's preferences I'd spend an extra £50-£100 (or possibly more) on a system I was confident I could upgrade, with a cheap discrete graphics card.

	25-02-2005 01:33									#116
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Yeah, as I said it comes down to the price difference. Personally even with LotM's preferences I'd spend an extra £50-£100 (or possibly more) on a system I was confident I could upgrade, with a cheap discrete graphics card.

stirlings at a $1.91 today. So thats $85 to$190(US).

Note. Weve got 3 options. PC with extreme. PC with extreme AND an open slot. PC with a discrete card.
Ive assumed PC with card>PC with slot> PC with extreme only.

But Cots experience indicates PC with slot is not much better than PC with extreme only. So we're talking about about getting a PC with a slot AND getting card, for $90. ( the $190 doesnt do it for me, as PCs as part of the cheapest system bundles are barely that much)

	25-02-2005 01:36									#117
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

local pc build it shop

http://www.tcponline.com/Video%20so...Video_Cards.htm

cheapest video cards are "Radeon 7000 64MB DDR AGP $49". Would that be much better than Intel Extreme?

	25-02-2005 03:04									#118
	Tired of ads?

Wouldn't like to say........haven't had much experience with budget budget cards.

	25-02-2005 03:27									#119
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Hmm... I hope 64-bit applications/games don't come anytime soon.

In themselves, 64-bit CPU's aren't twice as fast as 32-bit CPU's: they can handle a lot more memory, that's basically it. Irc, 32-bit CPU's can handle up to 2 or 4 GB or ram. 64-bit CPU's can handle a lot more than that. So you'll basically need a 64-bit CPU the day games will require more than 4 GB of ram. In other words: not anytime soon. Otoh, the extra ram is useful for game developers. That's why the guys who, for example, are making Unreal Tournament use AMD 64's with, like, 8GB or 16GB of ram.

Games will probably require multicore CPU's before they require 64-bit CPU's and OS's.

	25-02-2005 06:54									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark local pc build it shop http://www.tcponline.com/Video%20so...Video_Cards.htm cheapest video cards are "Radeon 7000 64MB DDR AGP $49". Would that be much better than Intel Extreme?

Spend an extra $10 and get the MSI RX 9200 128MB DDR