09-12-2004 18:20									#1
	The Offseason Baseball Thread Remove this text

What would you like to discuss? Steroids, Free Agent signings, trades? Your team's chances to win this year? WS predictions?Sping Training will be here before you know it...

Steroids: I believe MLB has been aware of steroid usage for years and turned a blind eye because of the financial gain to be gotten from the extra excitement generated by all of these HRs in recent years. I mean, really, didn't you start following baseball a lot more closely after the McGwire/Sosa HR binge of 2000?

Giambi, Bonds, etc: I dont judge them harshly for trying to maximize their potential through drugs. If you could take a pill to make yourself exponentially better in your chosen line of work - wouldn't you take it? I do believe, however, that if you let athletes juice up, you need to allow corked bats and you need to allow pitchers to cut up the balls and add substances to the ball when they are pitching..

Free Agents: The Phillies just signed pitcher Jon Lieber to a 3-yr $21-million contract. Is he worth that kind of money?

	09-12-2004 18:29									#2
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First... steroids. Up until a few years ago, it wasn't even against the rules of MLB to use them. So I don't want to hear about how certain records need to have foot notes on them... especially since they really can't "prove" that a player was on such things back then. But now that they are illegal... they need to have a real testing program, and not the crap they have in place now, and get serious about catching players using them. Anybody caught should be treated harshly.

Free Agents... The Cubs actually resigned Nomar for another year. And on a lesser note, also resigned Walker at second base for a year. This will only improve the Cubs. Now, if they could only dump Sosa and find a real closer...

	09-12-2004 19:11									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Free Agents... The Cubs actually resigned Nomar for another year. And on a lesser note, also resigned Walker at second base for a year. This will only improve the Cubs. Now, if they could only dump Sosa and find a real closer...

I think Nomar will have a huge year this year.. Closer for Cubs: Maybe they could sign Nen or Williamson? Did you like Lieber when he was with the Cubs?

	09-12-2004 19:31									#4
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Lieber was great when he was with the Cubs.

	09-12-2004 19:42									#5
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Free Agents: The Phillies just signed pitcher Jon Lieber to a 3-yr $21-million contract. Is he worth that kind of money?

No. What a disappointing signing. Now the Phillies have a bunch of #3 pitchers (plus a #5 in Myers).

Lieber may have been good with the Cubs, but that was pre-elbow surgery.

	09-12-2004 20:14									#6
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Nomar will be fine, but I would really rather the Cubs had gone after Renteria, since it subtracts from the Cards at the same time.

There are no good free agent closers. The Cubs will need to deal one of their 6 starters (5+Clement) to get the quality closer they need. Hopin Hendry is smart enough to figure that out and make it happen.

I'd give up Zambrano, heck even Kerry Wood, for Gagne -- in a heartbeat.

	09-12-2004 20:29									#7
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quote: Steroids: I believe MLB has been aware of steroid usage for years and turned a blind eye because of the financial gain to be gotten from the extra excitement generated by all of these HRs in recent years. I mean, really, didn't you start following baseball a lot more closely after the McGwire/Sosa HR binge of 2000?

I thought the McGwire/Sosa race was in 1998?

You (well, I) had to know something was a little fishy when people were talking about the chances of the single-season HR mark being broken that year... during March.

	09-12-2004 22:16									#8
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Nomar will be fine, but I would really rather the Cubs had gone after Renteria, since it subtracts from the Cards at the same time. There are no good free agent closers. The Cubs will need to deal one of their 6 starters (5+Clement) to get the quality closer they need. Hopin Hendry is smart enough to figure that out and make it happen. I'd give up Zambrano, heck even Kerry Wood, for Gagne -- in a heartbeat.

If the Phils are out of it in August, they will definitely try to move Billy Wagner before the deadline..

	09-12-2004 22:26									#9
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It seems that players and owners are determined to have tough steroid testing procedures impelented for this season.

Reports are that Bonds is already looking smaller. I guess he should plan on getting pitched to a lot more this year....

	09-12-2004 22:45									#10
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On a side note, when I was at the Kerry rally in Boston, an older man brushed by me on my left side. As I looked to see who dared such a thing, I saw to my shock someone I had known since I could remember. Not personally, but from TV.

Peter Gammons, baseball efficianado and ESPN commentator, was in the middle of this pro-Kerry crowd.

I couldn't help myself:

"You're Peter Gammons".
"I know".

Sadly, I couldn't find one person who knew who he was

	09-12-2004 23:00									#11
	MLB Owners Agree To Eliminate Steroids From Post-Game Buffet Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

http://www.thebrushback.com/mlbowners_full.htm

Well, its a small step, but at least they are moving in the right direction.

	09-12-2004 23:43									#12
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I'm looking forward to the Washington Nationals playing next year at RFK stadium.

There were 15,000 deposits on season tickets put down within a couple of days of going "on sale." I don't know how that compares with other cities, but I guess I was surprised at the amount of interest in season tickets in Washington. Maybe I shouldn't have been surprised. Washington is the 5th largest metro area in the US, after all.

	09-12-2004 23:53									#13
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15,000 without a marketing campaign is a guaranteed attendance of 1.2 MM before any single-game sales. That's pretty damned sweet.

	10-12-2004 00:03									#14
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They now say they've taken deposits on over 18,000 season tickets over the last month. I guess that puts them above Tampa Bay in attendance well before sales of game packages have opened up. And it doubles Montreal's average attendance of last year.

	10-12-2004 00:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Giambi, Bonds, etc: I dont judge them harshly for trying to maximize their potential through drugs. If you could take a pill to make yourself exponentially better in your chosen line of work - wouldn't you take it? I do believe, however, that if you let athletes juice up, you need to allow corked bats and you need to allow pitchers to cut up the balls and add substances to the ball when they are pitching..

No, I wouldn't. I'd rather have my accomplishments be mine and not a little pill's.

Besides, I don't work hard at work now, why would I want to take a pill to help me work harder?

ACK!

	10-12-2004 00:29									#16
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Score 670 reporting Cubs may actually have a good shot at making a deal for Kolb. If you are a Cubs fan this is a great board to hang out at for the latest info:
http://mb3.scout.com/fchicagocubsfrm1

While its not a major signing, I was also happy the Cubs picked up Blanco. One of the best defensive catchers in baseball and he has a good rapport with Maddux. Big improvement over Bako.

	10-12-2004 01:22									#17
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quote: I'd give up Zambrano, heck even Kerry Wood, for Gagne -- in a heartbeat.

I'd give up Wood before I'd Give up Zambrano, I don't think Z's last year was an abberation, and he's a big guy so he can probably take Dusty's abuse.

I've been happy with what the cubs have done so far. Personally I'd rather have Nomar than Renteria thanks to Wrigleys tall grass. Nomar will probably rebound and will be very expensive to keep around next off season though. I think who ever picks up Renteria is going to overpay. We still need a closer and solid lead off guy but the market's thin. I don't really like Kolb (lack of Ks) but he would be an improvement and is a ground ball pitcher.

It's rumored that the braves are interested in Farnsworth, good move for the Braves but I don't know who we could get for him. We're stuck with Sosa, pity I wonder how interested Minaya really was.

The Yankees signing seem odd for the Yankees picking up Wright and losing Lieber doesn't make a lot of sense. Womack was a good pick up though.

	10-12-2004 01:27									#18
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quote: No. What a disappointing signing. Now the Phillies have a bunch of #3 pitchers (plus a #5 in Myers).

Well Philly can't go after much considering payroll constraints can they. It was a good move.

	10-12-2004 01:34									#19
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I look for the Brewers to make a decent run with their ambitious new owner.

	10-12-2004 01:42									#20
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quote: Originally posted by cubbyphan1138 While its not a major signing, I was also happy the Cubs picked up Blanco. One of the best defensive catchers in baseball and he has a good rapport with Maddux. Big improvement over Bako.

ANYTHING is an improvement over Bako...

	10-12-2004 01:52									#21
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Washington is the 5th largest metro area in the US, after all.

Only when you include Baltimore, though, which already has a team.

Still, I have no doubt attendance will be higher than it was in Montreal the last few years. Kinda hard not to be.

	10-12-2004 01:57									#22
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Last I heard the Brewers were in the hunt for Matt Clement, if there were able to sign him, they would have a very respectable pitching rotation.

	10-12-2004 02:09									#23
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quote: Womack was a good pick up though.

No it wasn't. Especially not for the price.

Womack has a career OPS+ of 75. Last year was 93, but it looks like a total aberration.

Miguel Cairo was one of the Yankees' best players in the postseason and, IMO, better than Womack. His OPS+ is 79, but has had two 100+ seasons in the last 4 years.

Womack is going to be another high prices backup.

---

Oh, DanS, is there still that BS movement to try to deny the Nationals a baseball only stadium?

	10-12-2004 02:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Moral Hazard quote: No. What a disappointing signing. Now the Phillies have a bunch of #3 pitchers (plus a #5 in Myers). Well Philly can't go after much considering payroll constraints can they. It was a good move.

Yeah, yeah. Considering what's out there I guess they did ok. At least he's supposed to be a groundball pitcher, which is definitely a must in Citizens Bank Park.

But if the same money gets you Jaret Wright, I'd rather have Wright. Doesn't sound like they even tried to get him.

	10-12-2004 02:22									#25
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I wouldn't get Wright. Away from Mazzone, I think Wright is horrible this year.

	10-12-2004 02:29									#26
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Btw, what in the HELL was Troy Glaus doing when he signed with Arizona? I can understanding wanting the money, but couldn't he get the money on a better team?

	10-12-2004 04:18									#27
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sox need to sign pedro, cabrera for sure, varitek and pavano would be second tier for me, and trade one of the first basemen for a utility outfielder, and sign a 5th starter/long relief. so we'd have

curt
pedro
pavano
arroyo
wakefield/long reliever

at SS we'd have cabrera (this guy is something special)
1B i'd take mientkievcidawcz over millar because millar tends to get bad cases of foot in mouth disease.
2B is bellhorn
3B is mueller/youkilis

i dont care how good hanley ramirez is, he didnt make the top 50 minor league players last year, we need to keep cabrera at SS. give him a 4 year deal. he will average over .300 over those years with about 50 doubles. + speed, + defense, not bad 2 hole hitter.

yankees should trade everything they have + money for big unit. that would be the third time in the last 4 years that the Dbacks are personally screwed over the yanks (first time in 01 when they beat the yanks, then in 04 when they gave away schilling to the sox for an empty bag of peanuts, and then in 05 when they gave away a 40+ year old pitcher who will be good for at most 2 years)

	10-12-2004 04:29									#28
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quote: Only when you include Baltimore, though, which already has a team.

No. It's the 5th when you exclude Baltimore. Baltimore is now its own metro area and ranks 18th. Of course, you can squabble over some of the exurbs between the two.

But you can commute from one to the other reasonably well, About like some do between Philadelphia and New York. I have coworkers who live in Baltimore city and commute every day to downtown Washington.

	10-12-2004 05:20									#29
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Jeff Kent just signed with the Dodgers for 2 years.

	10-12-2004 05:37									#30
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quote: Oh, DanS, is there still that BS movement to try to deny the Nationals a baseball only stadium?

Mostly, the movement is for having the new team help finance the new baseball-only stadium. Of course, this would kill the deal to get baseball to the city of Washington for another 3 or 4 decades. I got an automated voice-mail message today urging me to call the head of the DC City Council to urge her to vote against the stadium. The question is then begged of who is funding the anti-stadium drive...

In any event, while I am sympathetic to that approach as a taxpayer ($500 million for 600,000 residents is almost $1,000 apiece), and friends in the construction business tell me that the price may go way up, that wasn't the deal the mayor signed with baseball. We have to decide whether we want baseball or not. The mayor has some strong arguments for why baseball is good for DC, the chief of which is that he is doing his best to extend stays of tourists by a day or two. If they stay in town another day, they get a hotel room, go to restaurants, etc. This would be all good for DC business and the city treasury. The multiplier is much higher for DC than for other cities. And he sees the buy-in is baseball.

Some people say that they should just play in RFK, but that deal's not on the table. We are building a soccer-only stadium as well (I think this makes sense) financed on the public dime, so that sort of takes the wind out of the sails of the opponents to public financing.