14-12-2004 07:40									#421
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DeepO do you have the status of all of our trades? I know we mentioned computers to ND, was that in the form of a commitment or just an FYI?

No need for you to list it now, but we will need to have a grasp of what we obligated for and how long.

A question I have had is can you not save the game and load it up to continue? IOW say you start it and move all units and such. Then save with the intent of coming back to look at the cities, is that not possible? Will you have to play the save all the way through with no stop?

I ask because you mention having it open and so has MZ. One of the problems for trying to follow things is not being able to see the current status.

	14-12-2004 07:47									#422
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status of deals: I didn't update the "current deals" yet, no. I tend to forget that quite often... the first post should contina most info. I'll do that in a moment.
So far, when we sent Computers next turn, the deal will have started, yes. Zeri sent a message yesterday (or the day before, can't remember. it's in the log).

As to saving and continuing: that was very quickly known to be very buggy, when reloading you got an extra turn of production out of your cities. We suspected Vox to have done this in the first few turns... it was identified, and ruled out. You are not allowed to save the game in between turns. So either you play everything exactly as happened before (and later in the game, i.e. now, this becomes a problem as you have to log everything perfectly... see the problems in this turn), or you leave the game open for as long as possible.

Which reminds me that I really would be helped by reinstalling my system. Since last time, I upgraded my main hard disk, and my processor... I'm still running Win 98, but it crashes far too often. It's a bit of a shame for a former software engineer

DeepO

	14-12-2004 07:54									#423
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Ah, I see it is not an issue you can't, but of the extra production bug. I hope IV solves these things. They said in the article in PC Gamer that they are starting all from scratch code and with MP.

Of course I have heard that before. Yes Win98 will crash, but I have not had one on my 98 box in some time. XP does better, but I have had reboots. I think they were hardware related.

I think it was a bad connection in the power supply. I have not had any since I changed it.

But I see why it much worse in a late stage game with more cities and more units. Its a shame.

	14-12-2004 07:59									#424
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Was it a production bug when reloading? I thought it was a culture bug.

	14-12-2004 08:01									#425
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quote: It's a bit of a shame for a former software engineer

Soon to be one again, or looking for something completely different?

My school is still looking for a teacher ( programming and databases ).

	14-12-2004 08:03									#426
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I think it was a bad connection in the power supply. I have not had any since I changed it.

well... I changed my power supply before too, but I've got the only pc I know of with a 5 year old installation, where both the hard disk and the CPU were changed without reinstalling windows That in itself is something to be proud of, I guess... but of course, starting up my pc now takes about 10 minutes because of all the registry junk.

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:05									#427
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quote: Originally posted by alva Was it a production bug when reloading? I thought it was a culture bug.

Could also have been... I remember production, culture wouldn't have matter that much. It was rather drastic at least. It's quie a while ago, with this war being fought, everyone forgot to celebrate the 2nd anniversary of the PTWDG at the start of this month.

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:10									#428
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: It's a bit of a shame for a former software engineer Soon to be one again, or looking for something completely different?

Nah, not anymore. More looking into becoming a project leader, which is more my style. But december has to be the worst month there is to applying for a job, everybody is in holidays it seems

quote: My school is still looking for a teacher ( programming and databases ).

If I would have had my PhD, that would have been one of the main jobs to look out for. I'm not sure what exactly you're following, but teaching industrial engineers seemed to be fun. Anything else... no thanks. And certainly not for students below 18 years old... too much hassle, very little return (I think). Don't forget ICT would only be one of the options possible, I would otherwise give probably maths, electronics or automatisation. Possibly physics or chemics. You don't want to explain that to a bunch of 14 year olds who are absolutely not interested in what you are saying.

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:11									#429
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Win98 needs to be reinstall once in a while to get rid of the "ghosts". Once a years is a good idea. I do not use it much now, just for a few games that now refuse to work on my current rig.

	14-12-2004 08:19									#430
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I know that... I told that to every friend who had any problems with Win98. Which makes it so shameful for me

And I can tell you, plopping a new CPU in your machine creates more ghosts than normal. Oh well... one of these days I'll buy me a new pc, and I'm happy again for a year or so

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:20									#431
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quote: If I would have had my PhD, that would have been one of the main jobs to look out for. I'm not sure what exactly you're following, but teaching industrial engineers seemed to be fun. Anything else... no thanks. And certainly not for students below 18 years old... too much hassle, very little return (I think). Don't forget ICT would only be one of the options possible, I would otherwise give probably maths, electronics or automatisation. Possibly physics or chemics. You don't want to explain that to a bunch of 14 year olds who are absolutely not interested in what you are saying. DeepO

Nah, it's adults only, so you get motivated pupils.
I'm going for a programmer graduate, not sure if it will do me a lot of good, but hey, it's still beats my former job.

I finished the Java courses.
Not that I didn't like Java but I couldn't stand the IDE. Now I can concentrate on my remaining VB.net classes ( while slowly migrating to C# ) if I passed the analyses exam which was a bit too much to get down in only a couple of months.

quote: Nah, not anymore. More looking into becoming a project leader, which is more my style.

	14-12-2004 08:21									#432
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I'm open to the draw after a UN attempt. Lego are probably out soon, GS could be without a full-on turnplayer. GoW is mostly MZ & some H_E, ND is probably down to Zeri & Bongo, and RP and Vox have bit-parts. All teams might agree to call it a day.

IMV the natural progression of the game would see us & GoW against ND with a pre-agreed countdown to war between GoW and GS afterwards, so we could fight ND without worrying about the backstab. Sort of Pistols at Dawn. We could even dual some WC and Horsemen for the crown.

Logistically its hard to see this happening as a DG. As PBEM the turn player does whatever, but there's no discussion and screenies and admin and documentation and all the work that goes with the job. In short, there is no state infrastructure to run, so it's easier to play the game, even if the game isn't played to such high quality.

The combat hasn't been the slog we anticipated, (we weren't expecting to destroy nearly all their production on D-Day +1) but the build-up and co-ordination was immense, and DeepO's workload astronomical. It can't be repeated unless a new turnplayer comes forward, which is unlikely. Even as a mere ambassador to our ally, and exhilarating as it's been, I can't do this again soon.

The realistic futures I see are

1. Peaceful building for relatively quick & easy turns and try and either outlive the other teams who retire, or winning wars when we're up for it again. Of course this isn't a realistic future at all.

2. Call it draw between GS-GoW-ND

3. Try for an outcome at the UN.

4. Give the game to an individual to conclude as a personal PBEM without the 'State Infrastructure.'

	14-12-2004 08:24									#433
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a couple of my friends did that same graduate level programming course a couple of years ago, and all are a lot happier now than in their previous jobs. And both my sister, and her husband are 'regular' graduates in programming... They're having loads of fun. But like always, it depends on where you end up... my brother in law had to move 3 times until he was completely happy.

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:27									#434
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quote: We could even dual some WC and Horsemen for the crown.

Hehe, I kinda like this one...we all bring a couple of warriors to the battlefield and have a best of two.
That was greek tradition, was it not? to have two fight to the death and whomever won the battle won the war without any other fighting taking place?

	14-12-2004 08:30									#435
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option 4 is an interesting one, CH... however I'm not going to do that either. You're right, the administration surrounding the save is what requires most effort from being a turn player, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for the team as a single player. Plus, everybody would still want to hear how the game progresses...
So, while interesting, I don't think it's going to happen.

option 1... that's basically the SS option. Maybe. But I don't think so. I could be wrong, though.

option 2 and 3 are for me basically the same. And we're in a different position than e.g. GoW. MZ has been running that game for a year now, he will probably don't mind if a few more months are added. Without a turn player, that would be disastrous for us. And it would be a shame as well, I would prefer a 1-turn elimination from the game over having to abandon it because nobody can spare the effort required.

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:33									#436
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: We could even dual some WC and Horsemen for the crown. Hehe, I kinda like this one...we all bring a couple of warriors to the battlefield and have a best of two. That was greek tradition, was it not? to have two fight to the death and whomever won the battle won the war without any other fighting taking place?

It was an option in case the armies seemed to be worth each other... I'm not sure if it was only the greeks, more ancient cultures might have done it.

I like that, as it would mean you basically agree to a draw, but let faith decide which is the real victor. However, it wouldn't be exactly fair to the little ones like RP and Vox.

DeepO

	14-12-2004 08:43									#437
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Oops. late again. Maybe you'll close before the bakery opens this morning DeepO. Bon nuit - as those other guys in Belgium say

	14-12-2004 08:45									#438
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ah, Tuesday is closing day for the bakery... so no chance this time

But you're right, better call it a night. Being at US time is not always the best thing

DeepO

	14-12-2004 20:30									#439
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO More looking into becoming a project leader, which is more my style.

No kidding!!!

	14-12-2004 20:34									#440
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Bah, I like to chat

DeepO

	14-12-2004 20:35									#441
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And before anyone thinks it's overly ambitious, that's junior project leader, of course. And the job description changes for company to company...

DeepO

	15-12-2004 14:42									#442
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MZ is having trouble getting the turn fiished. I'm wondering whether all the public trumpets about Stanwick are causing some embarrassment with different RNG strings on the replay.

	15-12-2004 15:06									#443
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO option 2 and 3 are for me basically the same. And we're in a different position than e.g. GoW. MZ has been running that game for a year now, he will probably don't mind if a few more months are added. Without a turn player, that would be disastrous for us. And it would be a shame as well, I would prefer a 1-turn elimination from the game over having to abandon it because nobody can spare the effort required.

I'd do it. I would not hold the 500 post discussions that have happened up till now, but I would make sure this team finishes the game, hopefully with some flair. Who knows, maybe SR would come back to help me.

	15-12-2004 16:26									#444
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nye if you're volunteering as a turnplayer too, please say so!

DeepO

	16-12-2004 07:40									#445
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I would prefer not. I have some other things that I regard as very important that take up most of my free time, and I am totally unable to be around here during work hours. However, if no one else is comfortable doing it, I will spell you when you need to stop.

I would want to do it a bit differently. I would want three 'ministers' (heads of the colleges was what was originally intended). One to hold discussions re economics and distill the wisdom. Another to conduct diplomacy, hold discussions and make recommendations. Finally, one to look at military issues, hold discussions and give 'orders'.

In other words, spread the work around. In the absense of someone holding a ministry, I would do the best I can to fill the gap, but I do not have the time to devote in the same order that you have. You've been magnificent, and I severely doubt that any one person could replace you. I doubt it would be good for us if any one person tried, unless maybe Aeson has not much else to do for the next 6 months.

	16-12-2004 08:18									#446
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Allow me to copy this to the other thread. Otherwise this discussion will drown in here... this player business is not going to be solved in a few days time.

DeepO

	18-12-2004 18:15									#447
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The GoW battle report is in. They modified the plan a little, to build another fort on top of their arties used to pillage the roads near Abilene. Further, they did destroy improvements near Jackson and Dye fields, but did not attack us. Lego will have to go through us if they want to break out, which is rather smart of them... it soaks up another attack, and we take the loss for it.

All cities were destroyed, so no worrying on protecting wonders and such. All is well.

Now let's see how Lego is going to react.

DeepO

	18-12-2004 23:09									#449
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Also what Vox is going to do, but it is about as good as we could have hoped for as a turn.

I don't know the ND team, but they have to be impressed by what took place. They would show a lot of courage to attack anyone after seeing the outcome.

	19-12-2004 01:54									#450
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So now the question remains, wether Lego will go out on a blaze or with the push of a button.