15-01-2005 17:24									#61
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playing a game without its native sound is a bit like.......erm.........im not sure, maybe watching a Pink Floyd concert on a small black+white tv?

	15-01-2005 17:34									#62
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The sounds in the game aren't that grerat, so you're not missing much

	16-01-2005 04:12									#63
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The geologist noise is rather cute, but beyond that you aren't missing much. And avoiding the sound of the water well is worth a considerable amount.

	16-01-2005 16:03									#64
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The theme to the original Settlers, on the other hand, set a new standard. I *still* hum it, over a decade after its release.

	18-01-2005 02:56									#65
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I finished Chapter one, and am about an hour and a half into chapter two. My border has finally reached up to the native settlement. Im behind them in area and pop, but well ahead in military and gold, so this seems like it would be a good time to attack them, IF war is inevitable. So how do I do that? Is war triggered by an event? Is there something I need to do?

And how do I get soldiers to the buildings I want them at? It seems the game only lets me allocate among frontier, outer, and inner areas. I only have 2 soldiers at my fortress - not sure how to get more there. Why are so many soldiers kept back at HQ?

Is there any advantage to wheat farm-pig farm - slaughterhouse chain as a food source vs wheat farm-mill-baker?

What good does the brewer do?

Is there any table somewhere, at a website maybe, that indicates production rates for the different buildings, optimal relations of input buildings to output - eg best number of woodcutters/ sawmill? This was easier in Caesar 3, IIRC. and some explanation of how long it takes a mine to be exhausted. And how the radius around a geologists discovery where its desirable to put a given type of mine.

	18-01-2005 03:04									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns All except for the 1602 reference. I haven't played that game.

another city builder/RTS type game, with a relatively granular economic model - plantations of different types feeding processing buildings, etc. It was set in a vague 17th century new world. You had warehouses filled with LOTS of different items, as in S2, and you had to make sure not to run out of tools - but in 1602 the tools were generic, not specific, OTOH in 1602 you had typical citybuilder style luxuries and building effects, houses, IIRC. In keeping with its theme, there was an emphasis on using ships to transport goods among different islands that tended to specialize. The later game in the series was 1503.

Settlers is odd, in that it has such a detailed economic model, but housing, and food (apart from the mines) is abstracted away.

It seems different, and interesting. Doubt it will end up on my top 3, or whatever, but ive got a ways to go.

Its already well justified its cost.

	18-01-2005 03:10									#67
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I finished Chapter one, and am about an hour and a half into chapter two. My border has finally reached up to the native settlement. Im behind them in area and pop, but well ahead in military and gold, so this seems like it would be a good time to attack them, IF war is inevitable. So how do I do that? Is war triggered by an event? Is there something I need to do?

To attack you just need to click on the enemy building (you can only attack buildings with soldiers inside) and chose the number of soldiers to attack with (the icons might be a little "weird", but you should get used to it soon. Among other things you can also decide if you want your best soldiers to attack or stay home (depending on if you want to play offensive or defensive)

The number of soldiers you can attack with depends on how many soldiers are nearby (the icons in the attack menu is about from how far away you want your soldiers to come from)

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark And how do I get soldiers to the buildings I want them at? It seems the game only lets me allocate among frontier, outer, and inner areas. I only have 2 soldiers at my fortress - not sure how to get more there. Why are so many soldiers kept back at HQ?

Is your fotress too far away from the borders? Your soldiers only go to fortress/guard towers/etc if it's very close to the borders. There is an option to change how many soldiers should be in towers depending on how far away from the borders they are.
The reason this is optional is so the player wont get mad when he finds out that all his soldiers are hidden away in towers in the other side of the "settlement"

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Is there any advantage to wheat farm-pig farm - slaughterhouse chain as a food source vs wheat farm-mill-baker?

IIRC there's not much difference... maybe someone here actually remembers this?

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark What good does the brewer do?

IIRC you need beer to get a new soldier (of course you also need a sword and shield for this)

	18-01-2005 03:15									#68
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark another city builder/RTS type game, with a relatively granular economic model - plantations of different types feeding processing buildings, etc. It was set in a vague 17th century new world. You had warehouses filled with LOTS of different items, as in S2, and you had to make sure not to run out of tools - but in 1602 the tools were generic, not specific, OTOH in 1602 you had typical citybuilder style luxuries and building effects, houses, IIRC. In keeping with its theme, there was an emphasis on using ships to transport goods among different islands that tended to specialize. The later game in the series was 1503.

I tried to like 1602 and 1503, but I never really got into it...

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Settlers is odd, in that it has such a detailed economic model, but housing, and food (apart from the mines) is abstracted away. It seems different, and interesting. Doubt it will end up on my top 3, or whatever, but ive got a ways to go. Its already well justified its cost.

Yep, it's not just some typical game... I believe you either like/love it or hate it... though for people who didn't play it when it was just released I could imagine it being much harder to get to love the game...

	18-01-2005 03:26									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio I tried to like 1602 and 1503, but I never really got into it...

The notion of 17th century islands being independent, with no host country relations beyond first settlement, stretched willing suspension of disbelief. Settlers at least has a story to account for that. Also the small size of the islands made fitting farms in annoying, and there was this mad rush to get deep mines, so that you didnt keep running out of iron, that was also a tad annoying.

	18-01-2005 04:07									#70
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quote: Is there any advantage to wheat farm-pig farm - slaughterhouse chain as a food source vs wheat farm-mill-baker?

They both cost 1 wheat and 1 water per unit of food and require processing at two different buildings. The advantage is that you have two different food sources rather than just one, so twice the chance of food getting to your mines in time to keep your miners working. Don't forget that mines have a maximum of two of each type of food they can store in their mine at any time. If there is only one type of food coming in, they will have eaten one and will then stop work while the other unit of food is delivered to their mine. With two types, they have 3 spare slots for food after eating one.

Fish are of course the first type of food you should get - if the level allows.

And as bADGer said, 1 beer 1 shield 1 sword (and 1 civilian pleb) = 1 new soldier.

	18-01-2005 22:46									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns quote: Is there any advantage to wheat farm-pig farm - slaughterhouse chain as a food source vs wheat farm-mill-baker? They both cost 1 wheat and 1 water per unit of food and require processing at two different buildings. The advantage is that you have two different food sources rather than just one, so twice the chance of food getting to your mines in time to keep your miners working. Don't forget that mines have a maximum of two of each type of food they can store in their mine at any time. If there is only one type of food coming in, they will have eaten one and will then stop work while the other unit of food is delivered to their mine. With two types, they have 3 spare slots for food after eating one. Fish are of course the first type of food you should get - if the level allows. And as bADGer said, 1 beer 1 shield 1 sword (and 1 civilian pleb) = 1 new soldier.

So multiple food sources eases the inventory limits at the mines. Helpful, if subtle.

And yes, ive figured out about the fish.

	18-01-2005 22:50									#72
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finished chapter 2.

have sort of gotten used to the unique approach to combat, though its still faintly amusing when a group of my guys goes to a native building, one native soldier comes out, and one of my guys goes one on one with him, while the others stand around.

And when taking a military building pushes the border, resulting in the other buildings collapsing, and workers scurrying out.

Especially when I take the HQ, which I did before I took the post near the gateway. When the HQ goes down its like you overturned an anthill, and huge numbers of workers go off in all directions.

An odd game.

	18-01-2005 22:58									#73
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Always fun to take out the HQ

	19-01-2005 00:37									#74
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark An odd game.

I prefer the term 'unique game'.

	20-01-2005 03:17									#75
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I prefer the term 'unique game'.

Whats really annoying is how EVERY building has its door to the southeast, and depending on where the flags on the roads are, this can mean connecting up to the road network requires all kinds of odd loops. Creates bizarre and inefficient road nets.

Unique indeed

	20-01-2005 04:49									#76
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Its easy to figure out where the flag for new buildings will be then, and your road system should have been designed with the hooking up of this new building in mind. Creates efficient and stylish road nets.

Learn how to build roads before you complain about them.

	20-01-2005 05:22									#77
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Yeah, gamers today, no patience.

	20-01-2005 05:45									#78
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yah, well it would be easier to learn things if there wasnt this bug where every so often the game crashes if i click on the pigeon who notifies you of messages. Once its done that, the bug wont go away till ive restarted the computer. Then it goes away for awhile, but is liable to turn up again.

Building roads - im not yet to the point where I know in advance where Im going to put my buildings. Yeah, I could pause, and plan out where every building should go using pencil and paper - THAT sounds like fun I mean it almost makes planning out the perfect block system in Caesar3 sound joyful, by comparison. At least there I can build seminormal looking roads.

I mean ive already got to plan out which of the building sites im offered will disappear when i build something.

Lacking a manual, and seeing no analytical tables about the game anywhere online, im trying to get an intuitive feel for resource conversion ratios, optimal building ratios, and the like. While actually trying to, like, play a game.

	20-01-2005 08:00									#79
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The level of planning I use is: A main road will go here with a barracks at the (current) border. This section I will use for cutting wood, down here some farms...

Speaking of ratios, I use 2 woodcutters per tree-planting guy. Two or three lumbermills will do me for the whole game unless I find lots of wood building up in my hq without being cut, then I build a fourth. I normally build two sets of baker/mills (one of each) and one donkey farm, pig farm and slaughterhouse. Then I clear land with spare woodcutters and build lots and lots of farms.

I have my hq and all storehouses never accepting water or wheat in them, so all wheat and water stays stockpiled outside of the producing buildings. I can then see at a glance if I need more of these buildings. Needless to say, all these buildings are built at dead-ends on my road network: to do otherwise would block traffic with all the excess goods they have produced that aren't yet needed.

Another good hint: Build your roads by hand. Don't click on the new building and then click on a flag on the existing road network and expect the computer to design an efficient connection between the two of them. Also, use 2-bit roads always. You will (hopefully) soon learn tricks you can use to make sure all roads are 2-bits in length.

	20-01-2005 10:56									#80
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So what do you build near HQ? anything? im getting the sense that is where things get congested, but spreading out the entire settlement, even buildings like mints and metalworks and armories, is stretching willing suspension of disbelief for me.

I guess i expected something with at least the illusion of being a sim, like the Impressions citybuilders - this is rather a more abstract strat game, in citybuilder dress.

	20-01-2005 15:30									#81
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Settlers is in a way unique. There are many similar games in various directions, but none that have that Settlers feel.

Even if you end up not really liking it it's still a key part of your gaming education.

	21-01-2005 22:29									#82
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Settlers is in a way unique. There are many similar games in various directions, but none that have that Settlers feel. Even if you end up not really liking it it's still a key part of your gaming education.

Oh, im not saying i dont enjoy it, in a "unique" way.

	22-01-2005 00:04									#83
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Stop whinging then.

	22-01-2005 03:18									#84
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Actually skanky's posts have helped somewhat.

and of course education is advanced by challenging the teacher, no?

and of course that I finally found gold in chapter 3 helps too

	22-01-2005 04:19									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Edit(all good advice though! )....... Also, use 2-bit roads always. You will (hopefully) soon learn tricks you can use to make sure all roads are 2-bits in length.

what do you mean by 2-bit? like with no juctions, just a begining and an end, or maybe its a measurement of pixels?
The way i try to do it is with as few crossing points as possible. So for example my food producing buildings i try to put in one long road(with the obvious sections where the building flag joins it). And i try to keep them in the order that the product will get processed.

So say with a wheat farm - i try to put that at the end of the road, the furthest out from my HQ. then coming towards the HQ i would build in this order:

Wheat Farm/Mill/baker

now as Pigs in the Pig farm need Wheat i would also considering placeing that near to the wheat farm/mill intersection, so some of the wheat gets quickly to the pigs.
Then on a seperate road from the pig farm, again leading back to the HQ, id put:

Pig Farm/Butcher

and so on.

I try to end up with as geometric 'spider web' type road network as i can.
Mostly just long lines of roads heading back to the HQ with the odd cross over road where a certain good might be needed in another chain.

But best of all i just like sitting back and watching + listening to the wind effects and little sound efects of the different industries as your little folk go about their buisness. Its a very charming game

by the way LotM, if a slightly more realistic city-sim type thing is what your after, then if you havent yet i'd say go check out the Patrician games http://www.ascaron.com/gb/gb_patric...rameset_ie.html

But i'm sure once you've got used to the settlers uniqueness - it will always hold a soft spot in your gaming hart.

	22-01-2005 10:16									#86
	Remove this text

By two-bit roads: When building roads manually, you have 6 directions out from the flag you can place a new road bit. From that bit, you can move the road out another 5 different directions. After this distance has been roaded, you can plant another flag*. This will lead to an efficient road network. 3 two-bit roads in a row will move goods much faster than 2 three-bit roads or even 1 six-bit road.

As the mill and the pig farm can hold 6 grains while still working on their next load of goods, I don't mind placing farms wherever they fit rather than close to the mills/pig farms. The goods get to the building and have some spare room regardless of where the wheat comes from with enough wheat production. Same with water. If I have sound on though, I put all my water wells in some out-of-the-way part of the map so I don't accidently move over the wells and hear their evil noise.

Yes, their noise is that bad.

Most of my production buildings - like the food production and the assorted metal production buildings can fit fairly close to my HQ. A donkey farm or two go wherever there is a large building space that isn't good for farming.

* Assuming you didn't bring the road back to one bit away from the original flag. Or any other flag, for that matter.

Regarding the bottle-neck that is the HQ entrance, attached below is my usual setup. The flags to either side of the HQ usually house a lumbermill as a growing empire will constantly need more wood. The dual road entrances on both sides of the HQ offsets the fact that each road from the HQ is effectively three-bits long due to workers actually entering the HQ to put stock in it. The same road structure works well for storehouses and harbours.

Attachment: settlers.gif
This has been downloaded 50 time(s).

	22-01-2005 15:18									#87
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excellent post i'll go give your method of road building a go, sounds very efficient

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns edit....... Same with water. If I have sound on though, I put all my water wells in some out-of-the-way part of the map so I don't accidently move over the wells and hear their evil noise. Yes, their noise is that bad. edit........

at this thing about the wells........its puzzling me a bit, your not the only person who's mentioned it either, but i can't think of a specific time where i might have heard an 'evil' sound in the game. Something else i can check out
I'm guessing it must be a sound like finger nails on a chalk-board? i mean its difficult to imagine an evil sounding well, its just a pulley with a bucket and some water??? I find the butcher has a kind of evil sound - that chopping block sure makes short work of my cute pigs

	23-01-2005 05:45									#88
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I was gonna get Imperialism, but I decided to get this instead. Unfortunatly my old computer can't give it sound because the sound card my computer came with got fried somehow. The only new thing on my computer is the soundcoard, and that is exactly what makes old game's sound not work. 100% Creative Soundblaster Pro compatible doesn't cover Creative Soundblaster Audigy Gamer apparently.
Oh well...

	23-01-2005 09:05									#89
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I think ive got the two bit roads thingie. Ive just tried building the roads manually, and keeping the flags as close together as possible. Makes the roads somewhat more efficient than before, Still not exactly a Caesar3 block though - ive still got to deal with scarce larger sites, mountains, borders, etc.

Do you try to keep an iron smelter closer to the mines? Ive done that in ch. 3, to try keep traffic on the road to the mountain manageable. Still having trouble keeping the prod buildings arranged as SB suggests. Of course i was well into this chapter when we started this discussion, so maybe it will help more in Ch. 4.

	23-01-2005 11:35									#90
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My iron smelter is generally close to the first set of iron mines that I build. Of course, by the time the game has finished it is no-where near my latest set of mines. If only minerals didn't run out.