13-12-2004 12:53									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia jesus christ kid, dont you ever get anything right in economics?

:sigh:

	13-12-2004 15:44									#32
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Famine strikes Washington! Scores perish.

	13-12-2004 17:56									#33
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* Last Conformist agrees with Kuciwalker, Imran Siddiqui, Jaguar and Boris Godunov!

	13-12-2004 18:08									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Famine strikes Washington! Scores perish.

Bono, Sting and Bob Geldof plan AssAid '04

	13-12-2004 18:17									#35
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The US can easily feed itself many times over so I doubt we will ever see famine here. We are trying to open our markets to agricultural imports from the 3rd world so as to help their economies and create truly free trade. This is going to mean fewer American farmers and more food imports though the falling dollar will slow this down.

	13-12-2004 18:20									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yeah. I'm sure production will increase, but it shouldn't mean that the supply in the 3rd world will increase. It makes sense that prices will be higher so supply must me shorter.

Farming adjusts to demand very quickly in the absence of subsidies. The food supply will remain just fine in the third world and the 80% of 3rd worlders who are farmers will greatly benifit from increased trade.

	13-12-2004 20:06									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious How does this supply food to the 3rd world. The food is coming here because the prices are higher. That's only going to put upward pressure on food prices in the third world.

Americans shouldn't buy food because otherwise 3rd worlders could afford it

	13-12-2004 20:40									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The US can easily feed itself many times over so I doubt we will ever see famine here. We are trying to open our markets to agricultural imports from the 3rd world so as to help their economies and create truly free trade. This is going to mean fewer American farmers and more food imports though the falling dollar will slow this down.

Yep, because we know that there is no such thing as famine and starvation in parts of Africa, so we can import food that Americans do not need.

	13-12-2004 20:51									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Farming adjusts to demand very quickly in the absence of subsidies. The food supply will remain just fine in the third world and the 80% of 3rd worlders who are farmers will greatly benifit from increased trade.

Demand adjusts? Yes it does at a higher price and a lower quantity. Draw your self a little supply and demand graph and decrease supply. That's what happens with domestic suppliers start supplying foreign markets.

	13-12-2004 20:55									#40
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quote: Farm states are Red states. Let the pandering begin!

	13-12-2004 22:50									#41
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There's no shortage of food in the world; the 3rd world problem is that farmers lack money to buy the other food types they need for a balanced diet.

	13-12-2004 23:01									#42
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quote: Farm states are Red states. Let the pandering begin!

13% of all ag products and 26% of all principle commodities are produced in California... are they a red state?

	13-12-2004 23:05									#43
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What about the other 87 and 74 percent. Where does that come from?

-Arrian

	13-12-2004 23:06									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Demand adjusts? Yes it does at a higher price and a lower quantity. Draw your self a little supply and demand graph and decrease supply. That's what happens with domestic suppliers start supplying foreign markets.

Thanks Kid but I know about supply and demand but apparently you don't. Your problem is you keep thinking everything is a zero sum gain meaning that if someone wins then someone has to lose. The real world doesn't work that way. Yes, prices slowly uptick with exports but supply is very very very easy to add with agriculture. Any nit wit with a bit of land and some seed can increase supply.

If prices go up supply rapidly goes up because farming has a very low entry cost especially in the 3rd world.

	13-12-2004 23:07									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Japher 13% of all ag products and 26% of all principle commodities are produced in California... are they a red state?

California is by far the largest agricultural producer in the US.

	13-12-2004 23:09									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley There's no shortage of food in the world; the 3rd world problem is that farmers lack money to buy the other food types they need for a balanced diet.

And the primary reason they lack money is because rich countries tarrif them out of the market or else they subsidize rich country farms to such an extent that prices collapse.

	13-12-2004 23:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Thanks Kid but I know about supply and demand but apparently you don't. Your problem is you keep thinking everything is a zero sum gain meaning that if someone wins then someone has to lose. The real world doesn't work that way. Yes, prices slowly uptick with exports but supply is very very very easy to add with agriculture. Any nit wit with a bit of land and some seed can increase supply. If prices go up supply rapidly goes up because farming has a very low entry cost especially in the 3rd world.

No you don't Oerdin. I'm sorry but you don't. I won't be able to discuss economics with you if you don't respect my knowledge of it.

	13-12-2004 23:11									#48
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quote: What about the other 87 and 74 percent. Where does that come from?

The other 49 states... We are just 2% of the country as far as statehood is concerned. 2% producing 13%? If that were the case for ag producing states we'd only need 7.7 states with any ag at all to equal current exported values. I can think of more than 7 states that have substantial Ag economies.

I only looked at CA exports

http://aic.ucdavis.edu/pub/exports.html

	13-12-2004 23:15									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia jesus christ kid, dont you ever get anything right in economics?

Kid, I am not the only one who agrees with this statement.

	13-12-2004 23:15									#50
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Here's 2003 overview, that includes all porduction, not just exports: ftp://www.nass.usda.gov/pub/nass/ca...2003cas-ovw.pdf

CA produces 27.8% of ag sales... Texas is in second at 15.3%...

	13-12-2004 23:17									#51
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Followed by Iowa, Nebraska & Kansas.

Cali - Blue
Texas - Red
Iowa - Red(?), but close
Nebraska - Red
Kansas - Red

-Arrian

	13-12-2004 23:21									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Kid, I am not the only one who agrees with this statement.

It's up to you Oerdin. There are a lot of idiots here who can't understand the fundamentals of economics. You don't have to be one.

	13-12-2004 23:23									#53
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Cali - Blue - 55 electorial college votes
Texas - Red - 34
Iowa - Red(?), but close - 7
Nebraska - Red - 5
Kansas - Red - 6

I don't think we should dump on ag just to attack the right or the left. Both sides lose.

	13-12-2004 23:24									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia jesus christ kid, dont you ever get anything right in economics?

Do you even have to ask? Of course he doesn't.

	13-12-2004 23:26									#55
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I would never have guessed San Diego County was the 8th largest agricultural producer making $1.35 billion in sales.

	13-12-2004 23:32									#56
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Wow, state wide the number of farms has almost halved since 1950 and the acres being farmed is down a third. That sounds like urbanization at work.

	14-12-2004 06:27									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha more likely Bush's refusal to go to the mat on trade to end the various NTBs such as the GM crop ban and the beef bans.

You mean the US ban on Canadian beef?

	14-12-2004 06:32									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The real world doesn't work that way. Yes, prices slowly uptick with exports but supply is very very very easy to add with agriculture. Any nit wit with a bit of land and some seed can increase supply. If prices go up supply rapidly goes up because farming has a very low entry cost especially in the 3rd world.

In many countries it is difficult to get farmland, particularly in third world countries where land tends to be controlled by the elite.

The price farmers receive for their crops may not go up significantly. The middlemen often take most of the profit.

Also, there is a time lag for the price-supply of agricultural goods. So on a short term basis, an increase in price will not change supply.

In the long-run though, you're more right than wrong.

	14-12-2004 06:35									#59
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I'm very disappointed...no-one seemed to recognise my quote...

	14-12-2004 07:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui They already suck on the government's teat too much.