13-12-2004 05:53									#1
	The US may run an agricultural trade deficit in 2005 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/12070...EM1VT.027.shtml

	13-12-2004 05:57									#2
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it's all in the name of free trade

	13-12-2004 05:58									#3
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When a currency falls, as the dollar has been doing, the deficit gets worse before it gets better. It takes time for everyone to shift their habits to better priced alternatives. I suspect that this is what is happening with ag.

	13-12-2004 06:00									#4
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The US eats too much

	13-12-2004 06:02									#5
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Maybe all the farmers will go broke and stop bothering us.

	13-12-2004 06:03									#6
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more likely Bush's refusal to go to the mat on trade to end the various NTBs such as the GM crop ban and the beef bans.

	13-12-2004 06:41									#7
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How is that Bush's fault? He didn't make American farmers shift massively into GM crops while there was a backlash going on in other countries. He didn't create mad cow.

	13-12-2004 06:55									#8
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Mexico has a GM crop ban, and yet their food, several hundred fold worse then ours, gets up here. It is a barrier to trade and Bush holds responsibility because it is up to him(with the senate's rubber stamp) to negotiate trade deals. He is failing here.

	13-12-2004 07:06									#9
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The WTO has a process whereby these bans will be removed across the board. But it takes time. Bush is utilizing this process. It's not his fault that farmers didn't take all these things into account when they planted their crops. He's not their nanny.

In any event, it wouldn't be in our interest to stop grain imports from Mexico while the process of removing barriers is underway.

	13-12-2004 07:14									#10
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Ted Striker supports Bio Diesel to give the farm business the boost it needs.

	13-12-2004 07:56									#11
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A rising tide lifts all boats...Isn't this evidence of increased production worldwide? The question is: with more mouths to feed, do protective tariffs help feed those mouths better than free trade? No, they inhibit production in the 3rd world.

	13-12-2004 08:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Maybe all the farmers will go broke and stop bothering us.

They already suck on the government's teat too much.

	13-12-2004 08:40									#13
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* Jaguar agrees with Imran and Kuci.

	13-12-2004 08:56									#14
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United States can import more food now that famine and starvation no longer occur in parts of Africa.

	13-12-2004 09:02									#15
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quote: They already suck on the government's teat too much.

Yah, that's the truth.

	13-12-2004 09:20									#16
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The idea is not to close our borders to trade, its to force them to open theirs. their economies are much more dependant on trade and they will fold if the US is willing to go the distance, they have in the past. I do not believe in or trust the WTO to take care of this, or any new NTB that gets put in place. The GM crop bans will of course eventually be lifted, but when they have served their purpose and the local producers have access to the technology.

Oh, the mexican foodstuffs you don't want to even threaten to ban, such as the mexican candy that is causing a disproportionately high occurrence of heavy metal poisoning among children here in the US, are one hell of a lot worse then the GM crops.

	13-12-2004 09:28									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker A rising tide lifts all boats...Isn't this evidence of increased production worldwide? The question is: with more mouths to feed, do protective tariffs help feed those mouths better than free trade? No, they inhibit production in the 3rd world.

How does this supply food to the 3rd world. The food is coming here because the prices are higher. That's only going to put upward pressure on food prices in the third world.

	13-12-2004 09:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Maybe all the farmers will go broke and stop bothering us.

Farm states are Red states. Let the pandering begin!

	13-12-2004 10:14									#19
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quote: The idea is not to close our borders to trade, its to force them to open theirs. their economies are much more dependant on trade and they will fold if the US is willing to go the distance, they have in the past.

We impose tariffs on all sorts of 3rd world countries and it isn't to open any market, it's to subsidise producers here by inflating the cost through reduced competition.

quote: How does this supply food to the 3rd world. The food is coming here because the prices are higher. That's only going to put upward pressure on food prices in the third world.

And that means more food is being produced abroad which is what i said. The tariffs hurt the 3rd world because they usually favor the more developed country, especially a more developed former or current imperialist nation.

	13-12-2004 10:20									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker And that means more food is being produced abroad which is what i said. The tariffs hurt the 3rd world because they usually favor the more developed country, especially a more developed former or current imperialist nation.

No. It doesn't mean that more food is being produced abroad. That's a leap.

	13-12-2004 10:52									#21
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Okay, I'll bet you more food is being produced today than 3 or 5 years ago

	13-12-2004 11:03									#22
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How about I bet you that food prices have increased over the same period.

	13-12-2004 11:42									#23
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Are you accepting my bet?

If people can sell their food here for more, they'll produce more food because they want to make money. Why would they give up the niche in their home market to sell here, they'd prefer producing enough for both markets.

	13-12-2004 12:10									#24
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countries like the US, EU and Japan don't have a comparative advantage in agriculture. Their ag industries are heavily subsidized (more so in the EU than US I'll admit... and Japan still has this anachronous concept of national self sufficiency)...

If the advanced industrialized nations lift their subsidies... they won't need to dump their surpluses in Africa as food aid, because countries such as those in Africa will be able to gain revenue by exporting that which they can competitively: agricultural goods.

	13-12-2004 12:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Are you accepting my bet? If people can sell their food here for more, they'll produce more food because they want to make money. Why would they give up the niche in their home market to sell here, they'd prefer producing enough for both markets.

Scarcity

	13-12-2004 12:29									#26
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This thread seems like a great place to ask if anybody knows why it is that average gross production of cereals (1999-2001) would be highest in a number of small and desert countries.

This came up in another thread in reference to the information on the highly acclaimed Nationmaster web site.

The site used the definition below:
"Average Production of Cereals refers to the amount of cereals produced in a given country or region each year. Data are reported in thousand metric tons. Cereals include wheat, barley, maize, rye, oats, millet, s"

I mean c'mon United arab emirates is number one? Can their data be that wrong?

	13-12-2004 12:38									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious How does this supply food to the 3rd world. The food is coming here because the prices are higher. That's only going to put upward pressure on food prices in the third world.

And do you suppose those higher prices are going to encourage more farmers to plant more acrage? Third world farmers who are deeply in debt will be better able to pay off those debts now that they have access to markets and that helps the local economy.

	13-12-2004 12:38									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar * Jaguar agrees with Imran and Kuci.

So does Boris.

	13-12-2004 12:50									#29
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jesus christ kid, dont you ever get anything right in economics?

	13-12-2004 12:52									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin And do you suppose those higher prices are going to encourage more farmers to plant more acrage? Third world farmers who are deeply in debt will be better able to pay off those debts now that they have access to markets and that helps the local economy.

Yeah. I'm sure production will increase, but it shouldn't mean that the supply in the 3rd world will increase. It makes sense that prices will be higher so supply must me shorter.