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Jon Miller
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well, while I am in favor of gay marriage
letting felons marry is not any reason why gay marraige should be allowed
it should be allowed because it will make gays life better (hopefully)
Jon Miller
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Comrade Tassadar
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Yes. At least convicted felons are human.
[/BenKenobi]
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Jon Miller
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it does weaken it
but not much, and a lot less than what straights have done to marriage (Seen fox recently? or the divorce rate?)
JOn Miller
(I know that you don't think that, but I am addressing that point)
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Jon Miller
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because of the large number of gays on apolyton
JonMiller
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:17
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why marriage matters for all Americans regardless of sexual orientation:
death: If a couple is not married and one partner dies, the other partner is not entitled to get bereavement leave from work, to file wrongful death claims, to draw the Social Security payments of the decease partner, or to automatically inherit a shared home.
debts: Unmarried partners do not generally have responsibility for each other's debt.
divorce: Unmarried couples do not have access to the courts or to the legal and financial guidelines in times of breakup.
family leave: Unmarried couples are often not covered by laws and policies that permit people to take medical leave to care for a sick spouse or for the kids.
health: Unlike spouses, unmarried partners are usually not considered next of kin for the purposes of hopsital visitation and emergency medical decisions.
housing: Denied marriage, couples of lesser means are not recognized as a family and thus can be denied or disfavored in their applications for public housing.
immigration: U.S. residency and family unification are not available to an unmarried partner from another country.
inheritance: Unmarried surviving partners do not automatically inherit property should their loved one die without a will.
insurance: Unmarried partners can't always sign up for joint home and auto insurance. In addition, many employers don't cover domestic partners or their biological or nonbiological children in their health insurance plans.
parenting: Unmarried couples are denied the automatic right to joint parenting, joint adoption, joint foster care, and visitation for nonbiological parents. In addition, the children of unmarried couples are denied the guarantee of child support and an automatic legal relationship to both parents.
portability: Unlike marriages, which are honored in all states and countries, domestic partnerships and other alternative mechanisms only exist in a few states and countries.
privilege: Unmarried couples are not shielded against having to testify against each other in judicial proceedings, and are also usually denied the coverage in crime-victims counseling and protection programs afforded married couples.
property: Unmarried couples are excluded from special rules that permit married couples to buy and own property together under favorable terms.
retirement: In addition to being denied access to shared or spousal benefits through Social Security as well as coverage under Medicare and other programs, unmarried couples are denied withdrawal rights and protective tax treatment given to spouses with regard to IRAs and other retirement plans.
taxes: Unmarried couples cannot file joint tax returns and are excluded from tax benefits and claims specific to marriage.
from the previously mentioned author's book (pages 13 - 15)
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Jon Miller
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also the fact that it supports good stable relationships which make people happier
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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I don't like smilies
in fact, I kill them in my sleep
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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you haven't really replied to me once..
JM
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Jon Miller
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hmm, I have gotten in to long discussions over this in the past
basically there is a deffinition for things
by expanding the deffinition you weaken it (it is less specific)
also, not all change deffinitions, and so you get some ambiguity their also
since marriage is an idea (or that is the most important part of it, although you might argue that the econimic befits are) it's strength is based upon it's definition
generally it takes a huge conversation, and a lot of back and forth for people to sorta see what I am saying
which I don't have time for right now, so if oyu want to discuss that point we need to do so on teh weekend
(I haev a final I am not prepared for tomorrow, and a takehome due tomorrow, and I ened an A on the final I am not prepared for tomorrow to do OK in the class (get a B))
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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I didn't say giving felons the freedom to marry weakened it
(although it might)
lifting the prohibition against interracial marriage perhaps did (in the US)
note, that based upon my opinoin of weaken, doesn't mean that it will stay weaken, rather after time (where thigns don't change much) it will strengthen (As people all generally come ot hold one view)
Jon Miller
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16-12-2004 10:02
ACK!
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