02-01-2005 06:44									#91
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quote: Perhaps not because if their computer business fails

It's not failing. They are financially sound and would be even if the ipod had never existed. There wouldn't have been this massive spike in share price if not for the ipod thing, but they would still be doing OK.

Marketshare is irrelevant as long as the company is still making money. For the foreseeable future that is the case.

People have been saying that Apple is going out of business for more than 20 years. They've had one real crisis and that was nearly ten years ago. Other than that, the company has been in pretty good shape.

	02-01-2005 06:49									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Perhaps not because if their computer business fails It's not failing. They are financially sound and would be even if the ipod had never existed. There wouldn't have been this massive spike in share price if not for the ipod thing, but they would still be doing OK. Marketshare is irrelevant as long as the company is still making money. For the foreseeable future that is the case. People have been saying that Apple is going out of business for more than 20 years. They've had one real crisis and that was nearly ten years ago. Other than that, the company has been in pretty good shape.

You missed my point entirely.

I didn't say Apple would go out of business.

I said if Apple doesn't do something about their falling market share in computers they may have to drop out of that business entirely and just run as a media company (iTunes, iPod, Quicktime; etc.).

	02-01-2005 06:57									#93
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That's not going to happen. Just because their marketshare is falling doesn't mean they are going out of business.

Hell, I specialize in Ancient Greek Philosophy and even I can understand why that is.

If the number of computers being sold as a whole is going up, it doesn't matter that Apple's marketshare is going down. Nor does it matter if they can maintain sales at a rate sufficient to keep the company afloat. At present, no one with any credibility is saying different. I haven't seen any serious source assume that Apple will get out of the computer business. The professional predictions have been the opposite - it's a stock to buy as analysts think that Apple's move into consumer electronics will benefit its computer business in the medium term.

They may be wrong, but why all this doom and gloom when Apple was the top performing stock of the year? Even if it wasn't the absolute top performer, it was way up there.

You want to see what happens when a computer company really fails? Look at NeXT. There is no sign that Apple is in that sort of trouble.

	02-01-2005 07:02									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon ...doesn't mean they are going out of business.

	02-01-2005 07:05									#95
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To be honest with you, I hope it doesn't happen either. I have very high hopes for Apple and am keeping the, err... "faith."

Just... keep the... "faith"... going..., man.

	02-01-2005 07:11									#96
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It's not a matter of faith.

You'll know if Apple is going out of the computer business. Right now, all this is speculation, and not particularly well-informed speculation either.

But it's fun to speculate, and it gives people on internet forums something to do.

	02-01-2005 07:16									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Having no games on it isn't a good reason not to buy the system?

Depends for which audience. There are plenty of people who never play games on their computers past Minesweeper, and there are even more people who don't even play these.

quote: And people don't get *gaming* experience when using the computer labs at school.

Again, the high-schoolers typically not the market Apple should look for. The expectations of highschoolers (games, tinkering, acceptation of a non-simplistic GUI etc.) are not expectations that are universally shared.

quote: So is Windows, in fact. Boot it up, click "start".

And have the computer not boot up (thanks to a virus contracted with E-Mail because of computer-illiteracy). Read the Windows manual, where is written "read the manual of your computer". Don't find anything in the computer manual. Be very angry at those airheads who can make rockets go to Mars, but who're not even able to make such a simple thing as a working computer. Call some computer hotline and yell, to no effect of course. Call some computer genius in the family / neighborhood. Try to explain the situation to the computer genius, and try to understand his explanations....
To a computer-literate like you, the situation wouldn't have even happened, because you wouldn't have contracted a virus in the first place. But I can see many people who want to avoid such a hassle. For them, a "box that works", and where there is only one possible culprit if it malfunctions, is an attractive idea.

	02-01-2005 07:16									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon But it's fun to speculate, and it gives people on internet forums something to do.

Amen to that.

	02-01-2005 07:27									#99
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Excellent post Spiff.

For people like my mother a cheap Macintosh would be ideal.

	02-01-2005 07:30									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Excellent post Spiff. For people like my mother a cheap Macintosh would be ideal.

Which is why I think it is a good idea for Apple to go into the cheap computer business. For those who don't want to play games, they just want to send email, surf the web, and write papers (or whatever) for the best price they can find.

	02-01-2005 07:37									#101
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quote: Which is why I think it is a good idea for Apple to go into the cheap computer business. For those who don't want to play games, they just want to send email, surf the web, and write papers (or whatever) for the best price they can find.

Well, I think you might be right. The original imac was initially supposed to be this sort of machine. If the rumour is true, I imagine that Apple did a fair bit of market research and found that a lot of their Windows ipod customers would try a mac if it were cheaper.

Funny thing is that this computer would be cheaper than the top of the line ipod. I suppose if people are willing to shell out for that, they would be willing to shell out for a cheap mac.

On the other hand, it will now fail since I have said this. I have an impressive record of failure at predicting the success of Apple products. I thought no one would buy the original ipod or the ipod mini at that price.

	02-01-2005 07:38									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui For those who don't want to play games, they just want to send email, surf the web, and write papers (or whatever) for the best price they can find.

Not to mention not having to worry about any hassles.

	02-01-2005 07:39									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Not to mention not having to worry about any hassles.

People care more about price.

	02-01-2005 07:41									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui People care more about price.

Low price, no hassles. Great combination!

	02-01-2005 07:44									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui People care more about price.

Again, it depends of the people. Many old-ish middle class people would happily spend an extra 100$ for a machine they deem to be simple and reliable. OTOH, many poor people would prefer to put some effort into looking for the cheapest comp, even if that comp appears to demand more effort from their part.

EDIT: I'm not saying old-ish middle class people would happily spend 1,000$ on a Mac if they could spend 400$ on a Wintel. But they would probably shell out the 500$ for the new Mac, rather than making the effort to create the cheapest PC comp (269$ according to QCubed, IIRC)

	02-01-2005 07:44									#106
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Lower price, can play more games.... that could beat that .

Apple will probably never get more than 5% marketshare again. They need the nitch markets and the perhaps some inroads can be made in the cheap computer market (but not much).

	02-01-2005 07:46									#107
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I don't think they should aim for more than that anyway. Plenty of car makers control less of the market.

	02-01-2005 07:49									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Lower price, can play more games.... that could beat that .

But when you have to spend too much time doing maintenance on the blasted thing, how you gonna have time to play games? That could beat that.

quote: Apple will probably never get more than 5% marketshare again. They need the nitch markets and the perhaps some inroads can be made in the cheap computer market (but not much).

Yeah, and you Mac bashers probably thought the same thing about the iPod when it first debuted and look what happened.

	02-01-2005 07:51									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I don't think they should aim for more than that anyway. Plenty of car makers control less of the market.

You know, Agg, if the Mac market share was about equal to the Windows market share it would do a lot of good for computer security in this age of terrorism.

	02-01-2005 07:55									#110
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quote: But when you have to spend too much time doing maintenance on the blasted thing, how you gonna have time to play games? That could beat that.

Only if you are total moron do you have to spend too much time doing maintainance. And seeing how Wintel controls 95% of the market, I'd say that beats anything Mac can throw at the computer market .

quote: Yeah, and you Mac bashers probably thought the same thing about the iPod when it first debuted and look what happened.

Would you like to make a wager? Mac will not get more than 5%. The iPod went into a nitch market, like I said Apple has to be.

	02-01-2005 08:01									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Only if you are total moron do you have to spend too much time doing maintainance. And seeing how Wintel controls 95% of the market, I'd say that beats anything Mac can throw at the computer market .

Well, I have news for you, Imran. The vast majority of that 95% are morons.

quote: The iPod went into a nitch market

You know, I would quote you on that one in my sig, but because I'm good Christian guy, I'm not going to. Lucky duck.

	02-01-2005 08:01									#112
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quote: You know, Agg, if the Mac market share was about equal to the Windows market share it would do a lot of good for computer security in this age of terrorism.

Somehow I don't see Apple as the solution to international terrorism.

	02-01-2005 08:04									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Well, I have news for you, Imran. The vast majority of that 95% are morons.

Do you use the QWERTY keyboard layout?

	02-01-2005 08:07									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Somehow I don't see Apple as the solution to international terrorism.

Well, let's put it this way. . .

If hackers had to manage their time between 2 different platforms then there would be less spyware, adware, malware and viruses, etc. per platform, unless for some odd reason the hackers just decided to ignore 1 platform and focus entirely on the other.

Now if there were 3 platforms (Linux included) and the marketshare was split by about third for each one that would be even better as far as security is concerned.

Get the idea?

	02-01-2005 08:07									#115
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quote: Well, I have news for you, Imran. The vast majority of that 95% are morons.

Do you have citations to prove this? Perhaps some statistical analysis? Frankly, I think those that post in such generalities about people without proof are the morons .

quote: You know, I would quote you on that one in my sig, but because I'm good Christian guy, I'm not going to. Luck

Why are you laughing? Digital music players are a nitch market. Compare their sales to CD players, Walkmans, etc, etc. They are dwarfed by the rest of the industry. Same with digital music (say iTunes or Napster, etc) compared to physical music sources.

Apple went into a nitch market and took it over. Smart idea, but it is still a nitch.

Btw, what about that wager?

	02-01-2005 08:14									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why are you laughing? Digital music players are a nitch market. Compare their sales to CD players, Walkmans, etc, etc. They are dwarfed by the rest of the industry. Same with digital music (say iTunes or Napster, etc) compared to physical music sources. Apple went into a nitch market and took it over. Smart idea, but it is still a nitch.

1. That's a niche [/spelling nazi]

2. Digital music is a market that can only expand. There was a time walkmen and CD players were also deemed as a fad for a handful of people. There was a time when Amazon was making massive losses. There was a time when computer games were considered as an inconsequential fad for geeks. These markets are now very mainstream.
There is no reason to believe that the digital portable music will not progressively replace the oder forms of portable music. Especially if easy ways for the computer-illiterate to get digital music are developed.

	02-01-2005 08:15									#117
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I just thought I'd share this hilarious pic from MSN on how to perfect your digital photos.

You would think they could have brushed out the Apple logo. Surprisingly, this isn't the first time.

Attachment: msn.jpg
This has been downloaded 44 time(s).

Last edited by Agathon on 02-01-2005 at 08:22

	02-01-2005 08:17									#118
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I like their advice though:

"You can eradicate black sheep family members".

	02-01-2005 08:19									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Perhaps some statistical analysis?

We all know that Mac users have a higher vocabulary than PC users, so .

quote: Why are you laughing? Digital music players are a nitch market. Compare their sales to CD players, Walkmans, etc, etc. They are dwarfed by the rest of the industry. Same with digital music (say iTunes or Napster, etc) compared to physical music sources. Apple went into a nitch market and took it over. Smart idea, but it is still a nitch.

Digital music players not a nitch market; they are a growing market and everybody wants one, though not everyone is able to justify the cost of buying one.

Despite this, Apple is having to manfacuture iPods as fast they can in order to keep up with demand. That just goes to show how badly people want them.

quote: Btw, what about that wager?

What are you talking about?

	02-01-2005 08:20									#120
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quote: We all know that Mac users have a higher vocabulary than PC users, so

For what it's worth, this is actually true IIRC.