13-01-2005 16:53									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Indeed, I have gained a great deal of respect for GWT and its members. In times of disagreement, there were no harsh words from them any more than from our side. Even with Lucky whispering his abominous thoughts to them and attempting to turn them against us in all things they stayed civil. Full credit to these guys :b I personally don't think they cheated at any point, and if there was ever a team worthy of beating us, it is GWT. I'm in favour of such a statement, and that we ignore GCA completely. As in, they post and it is if we cannot see their posts. They do not exist as a civ, or as nomads, or as observers or anything. We simply cannot comprehend the existence of a creature such as Lucky within our beautiful game, and therefore we cannot acknowledge it. It'll be far better that way, and might just infuriate the hell out of him.

Though I'm far more in favor of a total utter insane flame-fest against Lucky and his gang of merry idiots.

-MZ

	13-01-2005 16:55									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I voted yes. But me vs Germans is a quick way to lose the game. A few GS strategy builders vs the Germans ... I'd like to see that. Watching GS vs Lego in the PTWDG shows that anything is possible. Do I want to play it out as a dictator ? Hell no. We need a builder.

You forgot that your own team in the PTWDG outproduced both Lego AND GS?


Btw, I'm voting abstain. I'd like to see this game going but I see no chance of myself actually contributing to it because of lack of time. It's up for those who can to decide.

	13-01-2005 17:24									#33
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Agreed that GWT played an excellent game and a statement indicating that would be a good idea - they deserve it.

As far as Lucky goes, although I think we would love barbequing him in any parting shots - I think we should take the high ground and not mention him in any statement. Reserve your flamethrower tanks for any future (Civ 4? ) democratic game(s).

	13-01-2005 17:41									#34
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We can do "polite" flaming, something along the lines of "we can't help but mention that much of the inactivity and apathy has been the result of the very unprofessional attitude of a certain team. We hope that in any further inter-site demogames the other teams take this into account when deciding on who to invite".

	13-01-2005 19:17									#35
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Posted at the CGN Embassy Forums by miccofl about 12 hours ago:

quote: Ah well, given the results of the Apolyton poll, CGN resigns passes the turn on - endgame :nuke: This forum will remain active for 10 more days, after that it along with all other embassies, will be closed, archived and hidden for at least 5 years. The public forum will be the only publicly accessed area; there were things said in these forums that should never see the light of day.

It looks like CDG is gone no matter what we vote here.

This poll still has about a day to go, should I hold off on the announcement? Or just go ahead and do it.

BTW no word from CFC since this poll started.

	13-01-2005 20:02									#36
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OK I asked miccofl at the Embassy to consider posting a simulataneous announcement sometime this weekend.

I have also PM'ed Ankka and Yndy at CFC (There two most prolific posters at the embassy right now) asking for there input and if they are really going to bag this game.

Lets see what transpires but I think at least IMHO that if we are all going to go (and it looks like that is a foregone conclusion for us) that we do it together and post something more or less at the same time.

	14-01-2005 00:15									#37
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Exactly con. Thanks for trying to cordinate it all.

	14-01-2005 02:30									#38
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I was at first uncertain how to vote, and IMO, the key perspectives are of those who are still active with the game (BF, MWIA, et al). It would be great to say, yes, let's keep going, but then one would have to get more involved. And if the game isn't a whole lot of fun, what's the point. So, after a few days of deliberation, I have voted to quit as well.

And a big YES to taking the high road out on this one. Civ karma will take care of Lucky.

I would be Ok with composing a draft, and or pulling folks thoughts together.

	14-01-2005 02:40									#39
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Must have taken a while to put that post up there Kloreep!

Lots of multiple tabs and cut and paste.

None of that is available now, though, so this post may be edited over the next ten minutes or so.

	14-01-2005 02:58									#40
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My thoughts on the quit announcement:

We have two things to accomplish. #1, announce our withdrawl and state why. #2, hand out kudos. (Kudoses? What's the plural?)

To do number #1, we need to compile the primary reasons we are withdrawing. Lack of participation is the effect that drives it, really; I don't think there's much else. Do we wish to state any causes?

Lucky? He's certainly a royal PITA, but I lean toward ignoring him completely as someone else has proposed.

The complexity of the game? I know this was part of what dampened things for me as Consul, and I wasn't even a minister even if I did have to make orders on the spot. It certainly bogs things down for everyone involved in the turn-to-turn affairs of the government, though it wasn't an issue for me when I wasn't involved as much. This one certainly deserves a mention as one factor; it's a pain for the government heads and a disincentive for those thinking of joining them.

Another reason for me is the propagation of demogames. I am a member of 5 demogame teams. There is no way in hell I can keer up with all of those at once, and I think I have a good amount of free time compared to most on this forum. I can't imagine going inactive in some of the smaller teams I'm in (smaller speaking of active members, which is what matters). So, guess what I drop by the wayside? The ISDGs, which have a membership from across poly (and beyond). I would imagine most sf the people here who still remain active in one denogame or another have made a similiar choice.

And, frankly, another reason is the heat this forum can produce. By comparison, this team ranks at about bottom for me on civility and respect. It's not like we're at each other's throats (mostly not ), but it doesn't take much to spoil the fun.

So, there are my reasons. (Phew...) What are yours?

	14-01-2005 03:15									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Beta I I would be Ok with composing a draft, and or pulling folks thoughts together.

As essentially the only FAM kind of guy left here, I would certainly appreciate the help.

1. Congrats to GWT, they played a great game, and we would be honored to play with them again.

2. Thanks our allies CFC and CGN for sticking with us.

3. Our lack of participation due to some of the negative aspects of this game have really rendered it "un-fun". Hence it makes it difficult for us to even get the turn off anymore. We would hope that all the sites involved take that into consideration the next time we as a group put out invitations to an ISDG like this. (Make sure to specifically not mention GCA!)

4. It would have been very interesting to see how this turned out. GWT apparently had the best chance of winning but Apoly certainly was giving you a run for your money.


Those are the ideas, they need to be changed and word smithed A LOT.

But if you could work up a message Beta, I will continue to coordinate the responses from our allies.

Thanks

	14-01-2005 03:26									#42
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miccofl is onboard BTW with posting a message this weekend at the UN.

	14-01-2005 04:19									#43
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What does GWT think of all this, do they also want to quit?

	14-01-2005 05:21									#44
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I haven't talked to bongo.

BUT as an off topic comment in the General forum he alluded to the fact that at least he was thinking the same thing.

Ill try and find the link

	14-01-2005 05:23									#45
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The direct quote:

quote: Originally posted by bongo PTW ISDG I'm getting to the point where I feel like dismissing the whole game. One thing is the extremely slow pace, we're not likely to finish within the next 3 years if this continue. Another aspect is the amount of cheats/exploits etc that has posined this game

	14-01-2005 05:24									#46
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GWT quiting as well would of course be better, as it doesn't imply we lose. However, I would do the honorable thing, and claim second place. After all, the way it is going, GWT have the best shot at winning, even if we would continue. In which case it doesn't really matter whether GWT wants to continue or not.

DeepO

	14-01-2005 05:26									#47
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And here here is the thread where we had the off topic conversation. It was about the f11 screen in the strat forum:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=126878

I am spending my time coordinating our allies. Im not going to get ahold of bongo, someone else can do that if they desire. I dont really know him that well anyway.

	14-01-2005 05:41									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep So, there are my reasons. (Phew...) What are yours?

Not that it matters much, but here we go:

1. the unfriendly athmosphere. Not only between teams, but also in this team. It has always been the prime reason why I didn't get involved here more.

2. Not seeing any possibility to revive this game. Some have asked for GS builders (which I suppose I am part of), but it would be very hard to find new blood. Many people are already involved, and have chosen to steer clear of this forum or more involvement in this game. Finding a new core of players in our current team will be extremely hard, finding new members even harder.

3. No clear end date, only that it is far away. At this pace, this game is now going into a resting period of a year, maybe more. There will be no invasion before marines, or some very serious mistakes have to be made. Which means tech race, econ buildup, and finally army buildup before any invasion plans can be made. At 1 day per turn, that takes a year, and I doubt we can get 1 day per turn. Which means that before we can wage war, CIV will be here. Who is going to play this game then?

4. No fun at all, or at least not enough to spend any time on.

5. If the game continues, it would be with one or two 'dictators' taking the lead, as there is no team. Frankly, I don't really like that idea. There is no way one guy can have the same efficiency of a whole team, no matter how good he is. Which means that the game from now on would be sub-poly-standard... do we really want to risk the poly name? In a way, this is also why I don't really like the way the past few turns have been played. This is okay if it serves to bridge a period of apathy (and for that, I can only commend the current consuls), but it is no way to lead a demogame. And once you get into that, you can't get out either: you won't motivate anyone to rejoin discussions, if there are no discussions in the first place.

6. I was nearly going to say no chance to win, but that's not correct. It is fun to be the underdog in a game, to battle against the odds. That would be one of the few reasons to continue this game... but you can't come out of a underdog position when there is no activity in your forum.

DeepO

	14-01-2005 06:40									#49
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Well, we are 1st in MFG with our GA still to come. I'd say if the motivation and dedication were there we'd have a pretty good chance at winning... over 50%.

	14-01-2005 06:44									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Well, we are 1st in MFG with our GA still to come. I'd say if the motivation and dedication were there we'd have a pretty good chance at winning... over 50%.

Ya but then you would just spill the beans with GWT again and we would be screwed anyway

	14-01-2005 07:09									#51
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okay, so you just sunk my reason for staying... if we even aren't the underdog, there is no fun whatsoever

Only kidding of course. I didn't want to sound like all hope is lost, on the contrary. However biggest problem right now is pop and commerce (science), not production. We are behind in those areas, so I think in general we're not clearly ahead, and should accept a second position.

DeepO

	14-01-2005 14:04									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Well, we are 1st in MFG with our GA still to come. I'd say if the motivation and dedication were there we'd have a pretty good chance at winning... over 50%.

* Master Zen votes for Trip to take over the team and play himself...

This vote is binding and comes into effect immediately.

	14-01-2005 16:57									#53
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seconded

	14-01-2005 18:37									#54
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Passed!

Trip, the save showed up sometime yesterday, you are approaching the time limit to play. Please get the complete threads up and prepare to play in chat NLT 2200 EST today.

	14-01-2005 20:25									#55
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It really is too bad. The game is certainly winnable. I just don't care anymore. The exploit problems, Lucky, CFC's idiocy, Lucky, slow pace, Lucky...

-Arrian

	14-01-2005 20:34									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It really is too bad. The game is certainly winnable. I just don't care anymore. The exploit problems, Lucky, CFC's idiocy, Lucky, slow pace, Lucky... -Arrian

It IS really too bad. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. On one hand Im relieved its almost over. On the other I hate to give it up because it is win-able.

Ah well.

	14-01-2005 21:01									#57
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We just voted to let Trip take over dammit


Oh one little diplo pointer, next time we invade GWT, DON'T cue them in on our capabilities 10 turns before we land

	15-01-2005 00:09									#58
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miccofl made a good point at the Embassy today.

He said it would be best and most sportsmanlike if we played the last save and CFC did as well and then pass it to GCA so they and GWT could figure out what they wanted to do with it, if anything.

And you know I think its a good point.

SOOOO, as the only surviving minister right now. If BF and or MWIA dont play the save tonight, I will declare a coup de tat and just play the turn myself.

No use dragging this thing out any longer.

I have also agreed with miccofl that we shall post a generic non flamatory joint message on sunday sometime followed by our individual team statements.

Something to the effec like:

"Due to some of the negative aspects of this game and the general apathy of most of our players we have concluded that its simply no longer fun, hence no longer worth the effort to continue.

If the remaining teams wish to continue and find substitutes we would be happy to provide our passwords."

Something short and sweet like that for the Joint Announcement

	15-01-2005 00:32									#59
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yeah well whatever happens...

... I'm still proud of you all

* Master Zen sheds a little tear

NOW GIVE ME MY DAMN SIX MONTHS AS A CONSUL BACK!!!

	15-01-2005 01:48									#60
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 SOOOO, as the only surviving minister right now. If BF and or MWIA dont play the save tonight, I will declare a coup de tat and just play the turn myself.

Make this tonight MY time and you've got a deal. I have to go searching for flats again now, but Ill be back before tonight, in around 7 hours.