15-01-2005 06:52									#1
	Who's the worst U.S. president ever? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

First things first, George W. Bush is not eligible, as he has not yet concluded his allotted time as President. Even if you are one of the many, many people who were about to vote for him, you must admit that he still has four years to vindicate himself somehow, although I personally don't see a way. He's about sixty years too late to defeat Hitler...

Ahem. Moving along, there have been too many Presidents to have a formal poll, so it'll have to be written. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and both Roosevelts are hopefully not on anybody's ballot, and William Henry Harrison did a superb job for the month he spent attending inaugural balls before he died, but even with those eliminated there are still over thirty options.

I nominate James Buchanan, for doing nothing constructive to preserve the Union in the face of civil war, and for looking like the fruit of an illicit tryst between Beethoven and a cockatiel (Van Buren looked like a koala, which is arguably worse, but I don't know if he did anything wrong). Bad president, bad!

Other strong contenders IMO include Warren G. "Corruption? Where?" Harding, Herbert Hoover for his Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf routine of ignoring the Great Depression and hoping it would go away, and Jimmy Carter, the most moral yet least competent man to occupy the White House in living memory.

Any other nominations?

	15-01-2005 06:55									#2
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It has to be Bush. This is like removing Hitler from the "world's most evil person in history" thread.

There... I've made my vote and Godwinized the thread in three sentences.

	15-01-2005 06:59									#3
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Grant - great general, lousy president
Wilson - record for international interventions, racist bastard
Nixon - immoral scumbag

	15-01-2005 07:06									#4
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Grant, Hoover, and Nixon

	15-01-2005 07:13									#5
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1. The genocidal maniac,
2. the pedophile,
and 3. the one who nearly destroyed the country.

(If any of these positions isn't provided, it does mean your history is too short)

	15-01-2005 07:19									#6
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In before Lincoln & FDR nominations from the lolbertarians.

Hoover and Grant get mentions from me.

	15-01-2005 07:29									#7
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I'm going for two who never get mentioned in threads like these:

Franklin Pierce, who, through both advocated policies and feckless leadership, did more to hasten the inevitibility of Civil War than any other president, including Buchanan.

Rutherford B. Hayes who, like he-who-shall-not-be-named-in-this-thread, stole his election to the presidency, and paid back his South Carolinian supporters by ending Reconstruction, a move that cost black Americans their life, liberty, and property well into the 20th century.

	15-01-2005 07:39									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor 1. The genocidal maniac, 2. the pedophile, and 3. the one who nearly destroyed the country. (If any of these positions isn't provided, it does mean your history is too short)

US history is short but we've had more than forty leaders already. If spots go unfilled, I guess democracy is good for something after all...

	15-01-2005 07:41									#9
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I have always pegged Buchanan as the worst, thought Rufus makes good points.

	15-01-2005 07:45									#10
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quote: In before Lincoln & FDR nominations from the lolbertarians

Ixnay

	15-01-2005 07:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor 1. The genocidal maniac, 2. the pedophile, and 3. the one who nearly destroyed the country. (If any of these positions isn't provided, it does mean your history is too short)

1. Jackson
2. We have sexual harrassers, but that's about it. We fall woefully short of having a true sexual deviant.
3. Hmm, I'm not sure if we've ever gotten to the point of "nearly destroyed" but I think Buchanan, Hayes, Hoover, and Nixon are as close as we come.

	15-01-2005 07:50									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Rutherford B. Hayes who, like he-who-shall-not-be-named-in-this-thread, stole his election to the presidency, and paid back his South Carolinian supporters by ending Reconstruction, a move that cost black Americans their life, liberty, and property well into the 20th century.

Hayes was a truly awful president. If FDR is a 9, Clinton is a 5, Hoover is a 0, and Bush is a -4, Hayes is about a -30. Tied with Jackson.

	15-01-2005 07:51									#13
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How can anyone say that FDR is the worst? He's the best president the US ever had, as Churchill is the best Prime Minister the UK ever had.

	15-01-2005 07:53									#14
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Well, for the moralist crusaders, Cleveland had an illegitimate child, leading to one of the best chants by a challenger (Tilden I believe)

"Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?"

To which Cleveland fans retorted:

"Gone to the White House, ha ha ha"

	15-01-2005 07:55									#15
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The only thing I remember about Grant is that he supposedly had no fiscal restraint whatsoever...what else did he do?

Nixon doesn't appear to have done all THAT bad of a job as prez, he just happened to be a foul-mouthed drunken lawbreaking tyrant who made okay (not spectacular) decisions nonetheless. If you go by Watergate alone Harding should be even worse, from what admittedly little I know of history...right?

Yes, I'm ignorant. I feel ashamed to admit that I have no idea what Millard Fillmore, Chester A. Arthur, James Garfield, or any of the other late-1800s filler presidents did at all. I sorta started this thread to gain some historical perspective on what stinkers have occupied the WH in years past.

	15-01-2005 07:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, for the moralist crusaders, Cleveland had an illegitimate child, leading to one of the best chants by a challenger (Tilden I believe) "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?" To which Cleveland fans retorted: "Gone to the White House, ha ha ha"

James G. Blaine; Tilden was, like Cleveland, a Democrat and governor of NY (and was whom Hayes stole the election from).

	15-01-2005 07:58									#17
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quote: Well, for the moralist crusaders, Cleveland had an illegitimate child, leading to one of the best chants by a challenger (Tilden I believe) "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?" To which Cleveland fans retorted: "Gone to the White House, ha ha ha"

	15-01-2005 08:03									#18
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quote: How can anyone say that FDR is the worst? He's the best president the US ever had, as Churchill is the best Prime Minister the UK ever had.

Lincoln, FDR, and LBJ are the three Presidents most guilty of trashing the Constitution.

	15-01-2005 08:03									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Yes, I'm ignorant. I feel ashamed to admit that I have no idea what Millard Fillmore, Chester A. Arthur, James Garfield, or any of the other late-1800s filler presidents did at all. I sorta started this thread to gain some historical perspective on what stinkers have occupied the WH in years past.

None of those 3 even served a full term, and so could do little harm. Chester Arthur, however, was one of the most surprising presidents in history. He was a machine politician, protege of powerful NY boss Roscoe Conkling, and was muscled on the ticket as veep to make sure goody-goody Midwestern "reform" impulses didn't go too far. Upon becoming president after Garfield's assassination, though, he had a Road-to-Damascus-like conversion and actually presided over the end of the "spoils system" that had dominated federal appointments since Jackson, replacing it with an (in theory, anyway) apolitical, meritocratic civil service system. His old friends and sponsors in NY were furious, but he stuck to his guns and probably struck the biggest blow for Clean Government of any president.

	15-01-2005 08:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How can anyone say that FDR is the worst? He's the best president the US ever had, as Churchill is the best Prime Minister the UK ever had.

Were you talking about me? When I said Roosevelt was a 9, I meant out of 10.

	15-01-2005 08:08									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How can anyone say that FDR is the worst? He's the best president the US ever had, as Churchill is the best Prime Minister the UK ever had.

As Berz shows, Libs feel FDR is a bad guy for creating the modern US state.

Basically, if libs thing they were bad presidents, they did something long lasting and powerful.

	15-01-2005 08:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly James G. Blaine; Tilden was, like Cleveland, a Democrat and governor of NY (and was whom Hayes stole the election from).

BUt, of course, Blaine, the Continental loser from the state of Maine.

Was it "continental"? I forget that piece of the rhyme.

That was a dirty election.

	15-01-2005 08:10									#23
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a clarifier, most meaning in comparison to their predeccesor

	15-01-2005 08:16									#24
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Reagan. He was the vangard of the new conservatives.

	15-01-2005 08:17									#25
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quote: Basically, if libs thing they were bad presidents, they did something long lasting and powerful.

Strange, we had several Presidents early on who did lasting and powerful things and they're at the top of my list of best Presidents.

	15-01-2005 08:17									#26
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quote: Originally posted by GePap BUt, of course, Blaine, the Continental loser from the state of Maine. Was it "continental"? I forget that piece of the rhyme. That was a dirty election.

I believe it was "continental liar"; my presidential trivia geekery seems to know no bounds.

My favority bit from that election though, was when some public figure -- a newspaper editor, probably, but maybe a Democrat politician -- opined that (I'm paraphrasing), "since Mr. Blaine has led an exemplary private life but a questionable public one, while Mr. Cleveland's record shows exemplary public service but a questionable private life, it behooves the electorate to return each man to the sphere to which he is best suited."

	15-01-2005 08:56									#27
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quote: Rutherford B. Hayes

Good choice.

Single-handedly undid all the efforts to emancipate the blacks of the south.

	15-01-2005 09:55									#28
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Jimmy Carter, in my lifetime at least.

	15-01-2005 10:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Jimmy Carter, in my lifetime at least.

Carter inherited a domestic mess, which he stewarded very badly; but the mess was not of his making.

He had a great foreign policy failure (Iran) and a great foreign policy success (The peace accords between Egypt and Israel).

He was a mediocrity, but hardly one of the worst presidents ever.

	15-01-2005 10:11									#30
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He very nearly took away any hope for the future for the people of the strongest power on the planet, and people, at least here, laughed at him just about everywhere he went.

All this on the backdrop of a scandalized Republican party, which should have given him an easy time pursuing his agenda, if he'd only had one...

And that's leaving aside for the moment his catastrophic foreign policy appearance.

Even four years after he left, his VP got thoroughly trashed in the elections just from having had association with the man. For the good of the USA, if it hadn't been for Reagan, I shudder to think what would've happened.